[b-hebrew] Reconstructing Ancient Languages

AMK Judaica amkjudaica at hotmail.com
Fri Apr 24 02:38:32 EDT 2009


isaac,

 

it is true that hebrew was not employed in conversation outside of small circles until relatively recently, but as a literary language it never died out.

 

also, with my original question i really had pronounciation in mind. in this regard too there has been a continuous (albeit evolving) living tradition in ritual and educational contexts.

 

have a good weekend,

ari kinsberg
 


CC: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
From: if at math.bu.edu
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Reconstructing Ancient Languages
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:53:29 -0400
To: amkjudaica at hotmail.com


Ari,


As to "living tradition" consider the fact that the greatest Hebrew writer of modern times, Nobel prize winner, S. Y. Agnon (1887-1970) learned Hebrew in school from the Tanakh, the Mishnah and the Midrashim.  
Hebrew was not spoken also at the home of the greatest Hebrew poet of modern times H. N. Bialik (1873-1934).


Isaac Fried, Boston University



On Apr 23, 2009, at 1:15 PM, AMK Judaica wrote:



Isaac,






perhaps i wasn't clear.


if it has a living tradition/s (hebrew, arabic, aramaic, amharic, etc.) then it is not dead.


if it has no living tradition (akkadian, ugaritic, punic, etc.) then it is dead.






-ari kinsberg



CC: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
From: if at math.bu.edu
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Reconstructing Ancient Languages
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:55:29 -0400
To: amkjudaica at hotmail.com


Ari;


If it has a "living tradition" how can it be "completely", or even 
"partially", dead?


Isaac Fried, Boston University


On Apr 23, 2009, at 12:07 PM, AMK Judaica wrote:





Incidentally, for the semiticists/linhuists out there, I'm curious 
whether you think it is or easier (or fraught with greater 
pitfalls) to reconstruct an ancient language that still has a 
living tradition or one that is complete dead.






-Ari Kinsberg


Brooklyn, NY



From: amkjudaica at hotmail.com
To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:21:09 -0400
Subject: [b-hebrew] FW: Beit/Veit




yigal,






how do we know the pronounciation of ugaritic and akkadian (or for 
that matter, classical arabic)?






thanks,


ari kinsbeg


brooklyn, new york



Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:18:23 +0300
From: leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il
To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Beit/Veit


Hi again,


That was exactly my point: as far as we can tell, Biblical Hebrew 
did not
have a "v" sound. Not only doesn't Arabic, but neither did 
Ugaritc or
Akkadian, which are much closer in time to Biblical Hebrew. So 
yes, Isaac's
wife was something like "Reb'ka" (with what the Mesoretes called 
a Sh'va),
which is how the Greek got "Rebekka".




The problem with D and Dh (Th as in "that") is just like B/V - 
since Greek
does not have a Dh sound, we have no way of knowing whether when 
Greek wrote
Delta, they heard Dalet or Dhalet or both. The only thing that we 
know is
that in Biblical Hebrew the difference was not "regular" enough 
to warrent
two letter-signs like in Ugaritic, but by the time of the 
Mesorets, they
were able to include the differences in the BGDKPT rule. The 
same, BTW, is
true for Gimmel, however it was "originally" pronounced.


Yigal Levin




----- Original Message -----
From: "Yodan" <yodan at yodanco.com>
To: "'b-hebrew'" <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Beit/Veit







Yigal, thank you and thanks to Karl and Kevin.






A question to you and to others:






Does the fact that Arabic doesn't have a "v" consonant support the
possibility that Hebrew too didn't have a "v" consonant (we know 
that VAV
was pronounced like WAW, and this is still the case in some Hebrew
"dialects")? If so, perhaps what later became VEIT was 
pronounced like
BEIT?
(e.g. Ribka later became Rivka?).






A somewhat related question: Does anyone know if DALED is 
believed to have
been pronounced as an emphatic consonant, like in Arabic, 
perhaps in
addition to another pronunciation (like "d" or like "th" in 
"that", as do
Yemenite Jews)?






Thanks!






Rivka Sherman-Gold


_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew


_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail? 
ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009
_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew


_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ Hotmail®:…more than just e-mail.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_more_042009
_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew




_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage.  
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_042009
_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew

_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009


More information about the b-hebrew mailing list