[b-hebrew] Ecc 12:2

pporta at oham.net pporta at oham.net
Mon Mar 24 13:46:37 EDT 2008

It does answer and it does not...
What is the "w'shavu he'avim ahar gashem" alike to mean? Maybe that... after 
the "rainstorm"... (old age, agony, death) of a given individual... the 
world, things are going their way quite disregarding of the fact that that 
given person is no more in this world but he passed away? (People die and 
the world... goes on with no trouble)

By the way: are you sure what the vowels are for the first word in verse 7? 
Maybe tsere (under yud) and tsere again (under shin)? Or maybe qamats under 
yud and patah under shin?


Pere Porta
Barcelona (Catalonia, Spain)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "K Randolph" <kwrandolph at gmail.com>
To: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Ecc 12:2

> Well, Pere, the answer is "Yes".
> I see the verse as describing #2 as a symbolic reference to #1.
> The understanding that this section, verses 1–7, refers to old age and 
> death
> is predicated on the understanding that each of these pictures, while
> describing other actions, are symbolically referring to the loss of 
> strength
> that accompanies aging to the complete stop as in death. The final picture
> being in verse seven, that the dust settles back down on the earth as the
> wind that was blowing it stopped as a symbolic reference to a body ceasing
> to move upon death as the spirit leaves.
> Does this answer your question?
> Karl W. Randolph.
> On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 10:03 PM, <pporta at oham.net> wrote:
>> As I said, I'm reading Qohelet chapter 12 (a beautiful text!) and I wish
>> today ask for the advice of this list members as to the meaning of verse
>> 2.
>> This verse writes on the sun, the light, the moon, the stars becoming 
>> dark
>> and the clouds being coming back after the rain.
>> 1. Is the author describing here the loss of faculties most old people
>> suffer,
>> mainly the loss of sight  --which is so common as one gets old-- so that
>> the
>> person does not see the light anymore?
>> 2. Or is the author rather describing a rain scenery or a rain incident 
>> (a
>> sort of rainstorm, not necessarily a thunderbolted one)?
>> It happens  --and I myself saw it sometimes in this northerneast corner 
>> of
>> Spain where I stay --  that at a given moment the sky begins to become
>> darker and darker, nearly black... a lead screen covers it --so that 
>> every
>> natural light almost desappears--  and after a few minutes a thick 
>> rain -a
>> heavy shower-  begins to fall down...   This can last a half an hour (or 
>> a
>> little less or a little more) and then... slowly the sky gets blue again
>> and
>> white clouds come back...
>> I think myself that 2 is more logical for the inner coherence of text.
>> What do you think?
>> Pere Porta
>> (Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)
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