[b-hebrew] pelesheth hitthra'o'i

K Randolph kwrandolph at gmail.com
Wed Jul 9 09:41:19 EDT 2008


On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Gabe Eisenstein <gabe at cascadeaccess.com>

> Karl,
> You seem to have lost track of my question concerning Sanhedrin 105a,
> where the parable of David's objection to the words in Psalm 60 (or
> perhaps 108) is found. The Talmud finds something strange or offensive
> about HTRW((Y
> Actually, no. I never entered that aspect of the discussion. I deliberately
limited myself to a discussion of whether or not those claims have any
support in the text itself.

> Are you really saying that the two verses, differing only in the
> conjugation of the final word, are using two different verbs?…

Yes. Except it is not merely differing in the conjugation. By changing the
subject of the verb, the Psalmist changes the focus of the action. By
leaving off the possessive at the end in Psalm 108 that is there in Psalm
60, it gives a change in how the action is to be viewed. Then there is the
spelling. While the ancient Hebrews were somewhat flexible in their
spelling, in particular in relation to yods and  waws, in words where the
addition or omission of such would change the meaning, the ancient Hebrews
were sometimes quite regular in their spelling. For example, while I can't
speak for the DSS, in the text of Tanakh that has come down to us, there is
never a confusion between )LHYM "God" with )LHM "unto them". So also here,
the difference between the spellings is an indication we cannot ignore. Of
course we cannot neglect context.

> Do you
> imagine that one is punning on the other?
> Possibly.

> By the way, I have been referring to the phrase as "pelesheth
> hithro'a'i", but I realize that I should be including the previous word
> 'ali.
> I have been copying your system for representing Hebrew, but don't
> actually know what it is. Is there a common notation on this list?
> There is, but I don't remember the URL to the page that gives it, nor can I
find any links to that page from the archive pages (I am known sometimes to
overlook information right in front of my eyes). For the consonants, it is
just a very slight variation from standard notation, I don't know the

> Gabe Eisenstein

Karl W. Randolph.

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