[b-hebrew] pelesheth hithro'a'i

K Randolph kwrandolph at gmail.com
Mon Jul 7 11:18:52 EDT 2008

Dear Gabe:

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Gabe Eisenstein <gabe at cascadeaccess.com>

> Karl wrote:
> > Gabe:
> >
> > Where do you get your translations?
> >
> Sorry for not supplying them.
> The first is Revised Standard, but also many others.
> The second is a little version called the "King James". The same
> construction is shared by New King James, English Standard, American
> Standard and Webster. (Soncino tends to use King James.)

The reason I asked is because I could see no linguistic, grammatical nor
lexicographical support for those translations. The context also argues
against those translations.

Another reason I asked is because I know the text only in Hebrew.

> > HTR((Y comes from the root R(( meaning to be displeasing, in a way that
> > things that are bad or evil are displeasing though also punishment for
> our
> > good is also displeasing to go through. In particular, this is the
> hitpoel
> > binyan of the verb with a first person singular suffix. In the context of
> > this verse, "upon me Peleset makes himself my displeasure." or in better
> > English "Philistia makes himself displeasing to me."
> >
> I can find no translation of the Bible that agrees with you.
> According to Strong's, the root is RW(, not R((.
> The meaning given is "to shout", as in a battle cry. Scanning a list of
> other Biblical uses, I see it is often associated with a battle or other
> public event, and is sometimes associated with victory or happiness
> (crowning king, etc.) but sometimes (Judges 7:21) with defeat.

I don't care if no translation agrees with me, I need to see from the Hebrew
why I misread the text. Further, you need to show me from the unpointed
text, as I don't trust the Masoretic points (they are sometimes wrong).

Strong was not a Hebrew scholar.

The meaning of RW( is to draw out a sound. Examples of drawing out a sound
include shouting, blowing trumpets, playing stringed instruments, including
rejoicing and in battle situations. Twice it is found in the hitpolel, both
times including a waw (Psalms 65:14, 108:10).

R(( is used twice other than this time in the hitpiel, neither time with an
included waw, just like in this example (Isaiah 24:19, Proverbs 18:24). From
a strictly textual point of view, the form argues for the root in Psalm
60:10 (Hebrew numbering) to be R((.

Context also argues for the root to be R((.

> > Reading in context: the previous verse speaks well of Israel in words
> that
> > are put in the mouth of God, but then Moab is a caldron to be washed by
> God,
> > and he will throw down his sandal on Edom, then the comment about
> Philistia.
> > Thus the context also brings forth the idea of displeasure.
> >
> > The rest of your question looks like speculation based on mistranslation.
> >
> You guys can be kind of condescending when you're wrong.
> Can you give any reason why "Philistia makes himself displeasing to me"
> would cause David to take offense before God?
> Where is the idea that David is taking offense? I don't see it in the text.

> Gabe Eisenstein

Because I know the text only in Hebrew, any translation I provide here is my

Karl W. Randolph.

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