[b-hebrew] pelesheth hithro'a'i

Gabe Eisenstein gabe at cascadeaccess.com
Fri Jul 4 16:26:31 EDT 2008


Karl wrote:
> Gabe:
>
> Where do you get your translations?
>   
Sorry for not supplying them.
The first is Revised Standard, but also many others.
The second is a little version called the "King James". The same 
construction is shared by New King James, English Standard, American 
Standard and Webster. (Soncino tends to use King James.)
> HTR((Y comes from the root R(( meaning to be displeasing, in a way that
> things that are bad or evil are displeasing though also punishment for our
> good is also displeasing to go through. In particular, this is the hitpoel
> binyan of the verb with a first person singular suffix. In the context of
> this verse, "upon me Peleset makes himself my displeasure." or in better
> English "Philistia makes himself displeasing to me."
>   
I can find no translation of the Bible that agrees with you.
According to Strong's, the root is RW(, not R((.
The meaning given is "to shout", as in a battle cry. Scanning a list of 
other Biblical uses, I see it is often associated with a battle or other 
public event, and is sometimes associated with victory or happiness 
(crowning king, etc.) but sometimes (Judges 7:21) with defeat.
> Reading in context: the previous verse speaks well of Israel in words that
> are put in the mouth of God, but then Moab is a caldron to be washed by God,
> and he will throw down his sandal on Edom, then the comment about Philistia.
> Thus the context also brings forth the idea of displeasure.
>
> The rest of your question looks like speculation based on mistranslation.
>   
You guys can be kind of condescending when you're wrong.
Can you give any reason why "Philistia makes himself displeasing to me" 
would cause David to take offense before God?


Gabe Eisenstein
> Karl W. Randolph.
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Gabe Eisenstein <gabe at cascadeaccess.com>
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Well I had so much fun with yorenu that I'm going to ask for help with
>> another word in a Biblical quotation from Sanhedrin 105a. The word is
>> hithro'a'i (hay-taf-resh-ayin-ayin-yud), found in Psalms 60:8. The
>> translations go in two directions:
>>
>> 1) God is helping David defeat the Philistines, along with the Moabites
>> and others mentioned in the verse. These translations make pelesheth
>> (the word before hithro'a'i) the object of the verb, as in "Over
>> Philisita I shout in triumph".
>>
>> 2) For some strange reason God is helping the Philistines. These
>> translations make pelesheth the subject of the verb, as in "Philistia,
>> triumph thou because of me".
>>
>> Why God would help the Philistines is unexplained, and the reading would
>> have no contextual support, except that the Talmudic text portrays David
>> taking offense at the verse, citing his enmity toward Philistines. This
>> only seems to make sense under the second reading. Commentators say that
>> the following line, where God says "it is my duty to make them friends
>> with each other", refers to David becoming friends with Doeg and
>> Ahitophel. But this seems contorted to me. It seems more straightforward
>> to think that it is David and the Philistines who must be made friends
>> here.
>>
>>
>>     



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