[b-hebrew] Calm Down! (FROM MODERATORS)

Shoshanna Walker rosewalk at concentric.net
Tue Oct 16 18:30:09 EDT 2007


I disagree, I do not think that it is racist to believe that Torah 
existed before Creation, that it was G-d's blueprint for creating the 
world and that therefore it contains all knowledge of past present 
and future in it, That G-d used the Hebrew letters as tools for the 
Creation of the world, that the original Torah existed without word 
breaks, but that Moshe was given one particular version with the word 
breaks that have been handed down to us, that the Torah pre-existed 
every other language, including Arabic, that everything one wants to 
know about Torah (and about more than Torah as well) is CONTAINED in 
the Torah, and that therefore there is no need to look elsewhere for 
explanations of Torah, even where our understanding seems to be 
lacking at first, that only a fraction of this information is 
contained in the words themselves, and the rest in infinitely deeper 
and deeper layers within.

I do not believe this position is an insult to anyone.  It certainly 
is not racist, and does not need an apology.

Shoshanna




Hi Shoshanna,

I didn't address you directly when I complained about the recent 
racist behaviour recently displayed on this list as I didn't feel 
it was my place to do so and so humbly requested the moderators to 
step in before things got any worse.

But for the record, I didn't find your insistence of using the 
term 'Isreal' over 'Palestine' all that racist or 
offensive. You were just warming up when you made that remark. Where 
you overstepped the limit, in my opinion (which may be wrong), was 
were you insisted that evidence from Arabic language was inadmissable 
and made a direct statement about the Arabs which could cause high 
levels of unnecessary offense to a large group of people. There is 
not one person alive who could claim to have a 100% knowledge of the 
truth from Yhwh and while some are closer to that destination than 
others we are all on that journey at our own pace whether we be Jews, 
Christians or Muslims and the reason that most of us are on this list 
is to help us keep on track on that journey as we explore the truth 
revealed to us through the hebrew text.

Arabian people have a culture much in common with Toral traditions 
and their language can reveal much about the Hebrew language and I 
for one would feel honoured if Arabian scholars participated in 
discussions in this list as their point of view could bring great 
insights to the discussions we have on this list. However, as long as 
comments of the nature I am referring to are allowed to happen on 
this list I don't think that this is likely to ever happen

I hope you don't find my objections to such comments offensive. 
You are free to have your opinions about whatever ethical group you 
please. Just please don't propogate them on this list and make me 
ashamed to be a member of it.

James Christian Read - BSc Computer Science
<http://www.lamie.org/hebrew>http://www.lamie.org/hebrew       Thesis 
1 - Aleppo codex machine translation
<http://www.lamie.org/lad-sim.doc>
http://www.lamie.org/lad-sim.doc  Thesis 2 - language acquisition simulation



On 10/16/07, Shoshanna Walker <<mailto:rosewalk at concentric.net> 
rosewalk at concentric.net> wrote:

I asked a valid question, and you didn&#39;t answer it.  It has nothing
to do with zeal for my beliefs, but with accuracy re talking in the
Torah&#39;s language, ie; Biblical Hebrew

So I&#39;ll re-phrase.

Why is opposition to using a name to designate the region described,
lauded, promised and coveted in the Torah, which was not used by the
Torah, considered politically incorrect?  Why should it be used in
the first place on this list, which is supposed to be Torah based?
Surely everybody knows that the term was first used by the Romans,
thousands of years after the Torah was revealed in its present
written form, in this physical world.  Why would it offend anyone,
that I object to using that term on this list???

I would not object if you used "C&#39;naan", since G-d did.

As was requested, our political views should not be reflected in our
discussions, so I also am requesting that they (political views, ie,
as concerns the name of this region) should not be presented, but
just defer to Hashem&#39;s names for this land, (which He created) as
recorded in the Torah.

Shoshanna



        Shoshanna, I for one appreciate and respect your zeal for your
beliefs, but you&#39;ll have to make some concessions if you want to interact
productively with a diverse community like B-Hebrew. The moderators are
simply trying to provide a forum where everyone can expect a respectful
hearing of their views, irrespective of who agrees or disagrees with them.
Don&#39;t take it personally.

Gary Hedrick
San Antonio, Texas USA

-----Original Message-----
From: 
<mailto:b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org>b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibib 
lio.org
[mailto: 
<mailto:b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org>b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibib 
lio.org] On Behalf Of Shoshanna Walker
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 8:21 PM
To: <mailto:b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [b-hebrew] Calm Down! (FROM MODERATORS)

G-d/the Torah doesn&#39;t use that term to denote this part of the earth,
why does it have to do with politics to object to using it?  Why
should it be used in the first place when talking about Torah?

Shoshanna



Members of B-Hebrew are advised that racist or political remarks have
no place on B-Hebrew. This includes statements about the legitimacy of
modern polities, and claims of linguistic superiority.

It will be taken as read that innocuous references to &#39;Palestine&#39; are
mere geographic labels which make no statement about current politics
in the Middle East. Members who insinuate more than this will be
reprimanded.

Everybody, take a deep breath, and calm down. Now let&#39;s get back to
discussing biblical Hebrew language and literature.



Best Regards,

GEORGE ATHAS
Fellow Chairman, B-Hebrew
Moore Theological College (Sydney)
1 King St, Newtown, NSW 2042, Australia
Ph: (+61 2) 9577 9774



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