[b-hebrew] The root XRS-XR$

Isaac Fried if at math.bu.edu
Mon Nov 5 17:14:00 EST 2007


Karl,

I am still greatly interested in knowing if the etymology: "XR$, to  
work on or over (hence) to keep silent (can't talk while working), to  
be deaf" is your idea or if it is actually proposed in some  
dictionaries, where I can look it up.
One has to be careful with "synonyms" since they may not be such.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Nov 5, 2007, at 12:19 PM, K Randolph wrote:

> Isaac:
>
> On 11/4/07, Isaac Fried <if at math.bu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Karl,
>>
>> I did exactly what I said I will do, I looked al all Hebrew roots  
>> extant
>> with a medial R, an initial G, H, X, K or Q, and a final D, Z,  
>> Tet, S, C, $
>> or Tav. To limit the discussion to roots of the form XRS-XR$ I  
>> knowingly
>> excluded all other permutations thereof such as GZR, RGZ, ZRQ, nor  
>> did I
>> mention any other root not of this form.
>>
> True, but ....
>
> You mentioned a list of meanings that you claim that these roots all
> share, so after going through your list and finding examples that did
> not follow your claims, I then looked for synonyms based on your list
> of meanings, then listed those too. That the synonyms well outnumber
> your verifiable examples weakens your claimed connection.
>
>> Dispersion or aggregation means that the root refers to a material  
>> state of
>> several free or loosely connected bodies.
>>
> The actions are opposite.
>
>> You statement: "words that have no example as a root" is not clear  
>> to me. An
>> example accompanied by some explanation would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Each of the examples that I listed as not having a root in Biblical
> Hebrew are found only as a noun or an adjective, and sometimes found
> only once in Tanakh. The existence of a tri-literal root is never
> found, merely speculated. See below for an example.
>
>> Likewise, "could have been borrowed from other languages" is vague  
>> and
>> tentative. An example would be be greatly acknowledged.
>
> The problem here is that the documentation from Biblical times is so
> slight that we cannot except in rare cases prove or disprove
> linguistic borrowing. A rare exception is that PRDS is widely
> recognized as a Persian loanword, not only into Hebrew, but also into
> Greek. It is not a native Hebrew word.
>
>> XRD may indeed be also 'tremble, startle, disperse in fear or  
>> haste'. See 1
>> Samuel 13:7, Judges 8:12 and Hosea 11:11. The NAB sensibly renders  
>> Judges
>> 8:12
>> וְכָל-הַמַּחֲנֶה הֶחֱרִיד
>> as "throwing the entire army into panic".
>> As to: "XR$, to work on or over (hence) to keep silent (can't talk  
>> while
>> working), to be deaf", it is one of the most inventive etymologies  
>> I have
>> ever encountered. Is this remarkable etymology actually being  
>> proposed in
>> some dictionaries?
>
> It is less inventive than some of your etymologies. Further, the
> connection can be seen in actions that do follow that pattern.
>
>> You are saying: "XRZ, (not a root found in Tanakh)". What about  
>> XARUZ of
>> Song of songs 1:10?
>>
> That's a happax legomenon that is found only as a four letter noun. As
> for its meaning, that can only be guessed at based on translation
> and/or cognate languages.
>
>> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>>
> Karl W. Randolph.
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