[b-hebrew] Alphabetizing

Yigal Levin leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il
Mon Jul 2 16:27:01 EDT 2007


John, modern Hebrew usually does not use vowel points unless they are 
necessary to avoid confusion, and even then, it tends to use "vowel letters" 
(e.g. aleph for A, vav for O, yod for I, two yods for AY etc.). In something 
like a phone book, there would be no reason for vowels. The same for shin 
and sin.

However, in dictionaries, lexicons, concordances etc., the order seems to be 
patah, qamats, segol, tsere and so on. Also, sin before shin. I write this 
after flipping through a few dictionaries and a concordance, without having 
an "official" source. I did leave a query in the Hebrew Language Academy's Q 
and A email box - I'll let you know if I get an answer.

Yigal Levin
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brak" <Brak at neo.rr.com>
To: "Harold Holmyard" <hholmyard3 at earthlink.net>
Cc: <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Alphabetizing


> I'm not talking about in lexicons, but list in general.
> Like if you are looking at a listing of books in Hebrew with points how
> would they be listed, or names in a phone book, etc.
> I assume that there has to be a standard for putting pointed hebrew
> words in alphabetical order.
> That is what I am asking about.
>
> Thanks.
>
> B"H
> John Steven
>
> "If you don't behave as you believe, you will end by believing as you
> behave."
> -Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen.
>
>
> Harold Holmyard wrote:
>
>>pporta at oham.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>I have a question in regards to putting Hebrew words in alphabetical
>>>>order.
>>>>
>>>>I assume that ordering the words according to the letters would be the
>>>>first step, but how do you handle the points (dagesh and vowel)?
>>>>
>>>>What is the ordering criteria when you have two or more words with the
>>>>same letters, but different points?
>>>>
>>>>So, for example, if you have the words:
>>>>)FBAL
>>>>)FB"L
>>>>)"BEL
>>>>):ABFL
>>>>
>>>>Or if you have:
>>>>)FDAM
>>>>)FDFM
>>>>)FDOM
>>>>):EDOM
>>>>)ODEM
>>>>
>>>>How would they be alphabetized?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Look at www.oham.net/out/N-t.html
>>>You will find the right vowel and other points order stated by the 
>>>Academy
>>>of the Hebrew Language.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>HH: I say this to John: lexicons do not normally take into consideration
>>vowel points when alphabetizing words. They operate by consonants and
>>roots. Verbs normally take priority over related nouns that are
>>otherwise the same consonantally.
>>
>>Yours,
>>Harold Holmyard
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>b-hebrew mailing list
>>b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
>>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>>
>>
>>
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