[b-hebrew] Proverbs 13:1 (was Using an unpointed text)

K Randolph kwrandolph at gmail.com
Mon Aug 27 15:50:03 EDT 2007


Dear Peter:

On 8/25/07, Peter Bekins <pbekins at fuse.net> wrote:
> Karl:
>
>  >>The backwards gap is problematical because
>  >>there is no other example where it can be clearly demonstrated,
> nor is
>  >>there any example (known to me) with a gap going from a negation to a
>  >>positive.
>
> Hey, I thought you were giving me a few days. You can't start
> pronouncing it dead yet! O'Connor's thesis worked from selected
> poetic texts, just because he only came across two really bad
> examples doesn't mean that there wasn't any backwards gapping.
>
Sorry, I misunderstood a former response. When a former response
mentioned that O'Connor could find only two, that maybe he was talking
for all.

> Here is the best backwards gapping I have found so far:
>
> Song 4:8
> ‏ אִתִּ֤י מִלְּבָנוֹן֙ כַּלָּ֔ה
>   אִתִּ֖י מִלְּבָנ֣וֹן תָּב֑וֹאִי‎
>
> "with me from Lebanon O Bride,
> with me from Lebanon come"
>
Are you sure that the אתי is not the feminine singular imperative from
אתה which has the idea of coming to an arrival?

> Ps 94:3
> ‏עַד־מָתַ֖י רְשָׁעִ֥ים ׀ יְהוָ֑ה
>   עַד־מָ֝תַ֗י רְשָׁעִ֥ים יַעֲלֹֽזוּ׃‎
>
> "until when the wicked, O Lord,
> until when the wicked, will they exult?"
>
OK, you have made your point, it does exist. But it is a weak example
not only for the reasons you give, but also because the first strophe
sets up the actors, and the second the action.

> Now, I already know what you are thinking. Sure, that's "backwards
> gapping" but the other two units of meaning were repeated verbatim.
> In Prov 13:1 we have both a subject and an object that change. Fair
> enough, I will keep looking for better examples. But, these examples
> do demonstrate the basic idea that the verb can be omitted from the
> first colon and supplied from the second colon.
>
> And of course there is the negative thing. Technically, the verb is $M
> (, the negation follows the contrast between the BN XKM and the LC.
> What, you're not going to give me that? Well, I'll see if I can at
> least get you to consider it and I will keep working on a stronger
> argument.
>
First of all, you cannot deny that the BN in this verse can be a verb,
in particular one with the root as listed as BYN. If you allow that,
then you don't have to do your mental gymnastics to try to find
another example that fits your model.

>
> Slowly reading through Proverbs,

Notice that the book has 31 chapters, one for each day of the month?
Therefore you should be able to read it in a month. I usually like to
take a few minutes a day to read a chapter, wish it showed fruits in
making me wiser, which I don't seem to be.

> Peter Bekins
>
>
Karl W. Randolph.


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