[b-hebrew] Ha'satan - (Sub-category of "New or Renewed in Jeremiah 31:31?")

Shoshanna Walker rosewalk at concentric.net
Sat Apr 14 21:07:01 EDT 2007


Dear Yochanan, my email program is not configured to read Hebrew, so 
most of this email is lost on me, in the future, just send me the 
references to the quotes, or transliterate for me, please.

So I don't know if we agree or dsagree that HaSatan is an angel who 
has a job to do, as each angel does, when their job(s) are done, they 
cease to exist, and HaSatan's job is to tempt man away from obedience 
to G-d, in order that man has an opportunity to choose G-d, and 
thereby elevate his soul.

Anyway, when Mashiach comes, there will be no more need for this 
"testing" (and HaSatan will cease to exist because his job will be 
finished, that is what happens to angels), that is what the "new" 
covenant refers to.

Shoshanna


>Dear Shoshanna,
>
>In Sefer Bamidbar (Numbers) chapter 22 verse 22 we read 
>×ï÷
×ô÷º÷¥×ó÷
×®-×ê÷
×£
>×ê÷±×ú÷¼×î÷¥×ô×ù, ×õ÷º÷¥×ô-×î×ï÷¼×ú÷µ×ö÷ƒ ×î×ï÷º×ê, 
>×ï÷
×ô÷º÷¥×÷ƒ×ô÷
׶÷º÷µ×ë ×û÷
×ú÷ƒ×ê÷
×ö÷ƒ ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î 
>×ë÷º÷
×ì÷º÷×®÷×ö÷ƒ,
>×ú÷ƒ×©×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü ×ú×ï÷¼; ×ï÷ƒ×î×ï÷º×ê ×®÷¼×õ÷µ×ë 
>×¢÷
×ú-×ê÷¾×÷¼×Ý×ï÷¼, ×ï÷º×©×Å÷ƒ×Ý÷µ×ô ×Ý÷ƒ×¢÷½×®÷½×ô×ï 
>×¢÷¥×û÷º×ï÷¼ which
>suggests that  in this situation it was ×û÷
×ú÷ƒ×ê÷
×ö÷ƒ 
>×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î acting as ש×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü,
>right? Then in Sefer Shemu'el Alef (1 Samuel) 16:14 we read
>×ï÷º×ë÷¥×¢÷¾×÷
ׁ÷º×ï÷º ×®×ï÷º×ó÷
-×®÷½×¢÷½×î,
>×û÷µ×ê÷µ× ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î that clearly denotes that an "evil spirit 
>from YHWH" terrified
>Sha'ul, and not merely "an evil spirit". Also in Sefer Divrei Hayammim Alef
>(1 Chronicles) 21:1 we read ×ï÷
×ô÷º÷
×¢÷¾×û÷¼×ì ש×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü, 
>×¢÷
×ú-×ô÷¥×©×Ç÷ƒ×®÷½×ê÷µ×ú; ×ï÷
×ô÷º÷½×°÷×,
>×ê÷×-×ì÷º÷½×ï÷¥×ô×ì, ×ú÷¥×û÷ƒ×Ý×ï÷¼×, ×ê÷×-×ô÷¥×©×Ç÷ƒ×®÷½×ê÷µ×ú 
>but in the same account in Sefer
>Shemu'el Bet (2 Samuel) 24:1 we read ×ï÷
×ô÷º÷¼×°÷×£, 
>×ê÷
×£-×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î, ×ú÷
×ó÷¾×®×ï÷¼×,
>×ë÷º÷ƒ×ô÷¥×©×Ç÷ƒ×®÷½×ê÷µ×ú; ×ï÷
×ô÷º÷½×°÷× ×ê÷×-×ì÷º÷½×ï÷¥×ì 
>×ë÷º÷½×î÷×ù ×ú÷µ×ê×û÷¼×®, ×ú÷µ×ö÷ƒ ×û÷ƒ×Ý÷µ×î 
>×ê÷×-×ô÷¥×©×Ç÷ƒ×®÷½×ê÷µ×ú
>×ï÷ƒ×ê÷×-×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷º×ì÷½×î , suggesting that the ש×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü of 
>the account in Divrei
>Hayammim is ×ê÷
×£-×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î, much like it was in Sefer Bamidbar 
>chapter 22.
>
>All the above seem to point to ש×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü being a servant of 
>×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î working on
>His side against "evil men". So what else does the Miq'ra state about the
>concept, or personality of ש×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü?
>
>We read in Sefer Zekaryah chapter 3 ×ï÷
×ô÷º÷
×®÷ƒ×ê÷µ×Ý÷¥×ô, 
>×ê÷×-×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷¼×©×Å÷ª×¢÷
 ×î÷
×õ÷º÷¼×î÷µ×ü
>×î÷
×í÷º÷½×ì×ï÷¼×ú, ×¢÷¼×û÷µ×ì, ×ú÷¥×§÷ƒ×Ý÷µ×ô ×û÷
×ú÷ƒ×ê÷
×ö÷ƒ 
>×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î; ×ï÷ƒ×î÷
ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü ×¢÷¼×û÷µ×ì 
>×¢÷
×ú-×ô÷ƒ×û÷¥×ô×Ý×ï÷¼,
>×ú÷ƒ×©×Ç÷¥×ò÷ƒ×Ý×ï÷¼ and then   ×ï÷
×ô÷º÷¼×ê×û÷×® ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î 
>×ê÷×ú-×î÷
ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü, ×ô÷¥×í÷ƒ×¢÷
×® ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î ×ë÷º÷ƒ×ö÷½
>×î÷
ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü, ×ï÷ƒ×ô÷¥×í÷ƒ×¢÷
×® ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î ×ë÷º÷ƒ×ö÷½, 
>×î÷
×ë÷º÷¼×ó÷µ×® ×ë÷º÷¥×ô×®×ï÷º×©×Å÷½×ú÷½÷¥×ù; ×î÷¾×ú×ï÷¼×ê ×ñ÷×î 
>×ê×ï÷º×ì,
>×û÷ª×¶÷º÷½×ú ×û÷µ×ê÷µ×©×Å which to some would appear as if 
>ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü is the enemy of ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î,
>or at least opposes Him, but in truth the answer lies in the phrase
>×ï÷¥×ô×î×ï÷¼×©×Å÷ª×¢÷
,
>×î÷½×ô÷½×î ×ú÷½×ë÷ª×©×Å ×ë÷º÷ƒ×í÷½×ì÷¥×ô×ù ׶×ï÷¼×ê÷¥×ô×ù; 
>×ï÷ƒ×¢÷¼×û÷µ×ì, ×ú÷¥×§÷ƒ×Ý÷µ×ô ×î÷
×û÷º÷
×ú÷ƒ×ê÷½×ö÷ƒ, which when
>linked with the idea of ×ï÷
×Ý÷º÷ƒ×î÷¥×ô ×õ÷
×ò÷º÷½×û÷µ×ê 
>×õ÷º÷ª×ú÷º÷½×Ý×ï÷º, ×ï÷º×õ÷ƒ×ë÷×í÷×ì ×¢÷¥×ì÷º÷¥×ô×ù
>×õ÷º÷½×ú-׶÷¥×ì÷ƒ×ß÷¼×÷µ×ô×Ý×ï÷º; ×ï÷
×Ý÷º÷½×ë÷×ú ×õ÷º÷×¢÷½×ú÷×î 
>×õ÷º÷ª×ú÷º÷½×Ý×ï÷º, ×ï÷
×¢÷¾×ï’Äç÷¼×Ý÷µ×Ý×ï÷º ×õ÷º÷½×®×ï÷º×ó÷

>×ô÷¥×©÷º×Ç÷½×ê÷ª×Ý×ï÷º found in Sefer Yishayahu (Isaiah) chapter 64 
>verse 5 seem to
>show us that either Israel or Yohoshu'a had sinned.
>
>And what about in Sefer Iyyov (Job) where it appears that ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü is
>tempting Iyyov? Through out this text we see everything attributed to
>×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×îby Iyyov, and never to the idea of a
>ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü, and we see that when the ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü is talking 
>to ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î that it is
>made clear that the ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü can do nothing without the 
>permission of ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î,
>right?
>
>I think it is self-evident in the Miq'ra that the idea of 
>ש÷º×Ç÷½×ò÷½×ü is one of
>a messenger of ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î, or ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î, Himself, acting as an 
>advesary to wicked
>humans, or a test unto humans to see if they will remain loyal to 
>×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î,
>never as an evil-being in opposition to ×ô÷ƒ×î×ï÷½×î and out to bring down the
>fall of humankind, which in my humble opinion is a pagan idea.
>
>Yohanan bin-Dawidh×ô÷ƒ
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