[b-hebrew] Dying, you will die Gen 2:17
rosewalk at concentric.net
Wed Apr 11 01:26:55 EDT 2007
OK, Steve, then we will just have to agree to disagree.
Please quote to me where in the NT, G-d is directly speaking, or says
He is directly speaking.
And you misquote me
I do not admit that the Oral Law never claimed to be the word of G-d
- excuse me, yes I do - the Oral Law has no ontological being in
order to proclaim itself the Word of G-d. But it is the Word of G-d,
ie; that G-d gave a written and Oral Torah to Moshe, and I can prove
it from the Torah itself, but we have had that conversation on this
list, look it up in the archives.
And re your last sentence - read some of their biographies.
The Arizal's for instance.
> From: 'Shoshanna Walker'
> So what do I, or any of us Jews who spend our time observing Torah
> and learning it as best we can, each to our own ability, care what
> Peter says?
[Steve Miller] your statement was that Romans does not claim to be the word
of God. I said that the New Testament does say it is the word of God.
> They didn't have to claim it - they didn't have to prove themselves
> to ignoramuses like me and you - they were living, breathing,
> sleeping Torah!
[Steve Miller] Then you admit that the oral law never claimed to be the word
Also, I don't think these people were living, breathing and sleeping the
Torah. They were more likely living, breathing and sleeping commentaries
about the Torah, which is very different, and endless.
> > From: Shoshanna Walker
> > Romans is not the word of G-d, it doesn't even allege that.
> [Steve Miller]
> 2 Peter 3:16 says that Paul's writings are Scripture.
> Thank you for writing. Where do the Talmud, Mishnah and Rashi commentaries
> claim to be the word of God?
> I was raised Orthodox and went to Hebrew school and Hebrew college, and I
> was not taught that the Talmud, Mishnah or Rashi were part of the word of
> God. My mother told us that the Talmud was written by sages much wiser
> us, but we did not believe that it was the word of God like the Tanach is.
> I have talked to many rabbis, and I have never met any who believe like
> seem to, that Rashi's commentary is the authoritative explanation of the
> Here is a previous post on the subject by Yitzhak Saphir:
> >>The idea that there is an oral law equally as authoritative as the
> >>written law is highly dubious to me. You say that this prevents
> >>mistranslation, but it allows the importation of every kind of merely
> >>human idea and even perversion of God's word. God warns against adding
> >>to his word, and a proposed "oral law" does just that. It presents
> >>something as having the same authority as the written word, from what
> >>you say, and thereby adds to God's word.
> >However, Shoshanna's interpretation of Rashi and Midrash as part of this
> >oral law is not shared by all Jews. It is an extreme interpretation that
> >essentially says that Rashi or the Rabbis of the Midrash whom he often
> >quotes was not a great scholar but simply a scribe who wrote something
> >handed down to him from the days of Moses. While that may describe
> >much of his work (much of Rashi is effectively quotes from the Midrash),
> >he was also a great scholar and a true understanding of Rashi can only
> >be achieved by seeing all his quoted sources (which are many!) and
> >identifying which parts he chose to quote, which he chose not to quote,
> >what he chose to add of his own, and answering why he chose to do what
> >he did.
> -Steve Miller
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