[b-hebrew] Dying, you will die

Shoshanna Walker rosewalk at concentric.net
Tue Apr 10 23:26:06 EDT 2007

I know, I thought this was about linguistics, not theology, but some 
members of this list see Jesus everywhere in Torah, when there is no 
"linguistic" basis, like in Bereishis, and I have been quiet for a 
long time, and no one cares when they promote their theology, but 
some people get angry at me for protesting, and it is really annoying 
to me - I don't seek to promote Jewish theology, but then you, 
Christians, also shouldn't - unless we are discussing NT,  which then 
we could argue what Biblical Hebrew (the name of this list) actually 
refers to.

I don't think I am contradicting myself, since I am not making 
anything up, but deferring to Chazal, who were all superior than me 
to a level which I cannot even comprehend, and it is clear to all of 
them, and even to me, a mere nobody, that even Jewish people could 
rebel against G-d and Torah and work to make up a new religion, and 
even have a big say in world events, which doesn't make them right, 
no matter how much they affected world events.

My previous point being, that we Jews weren't affected by some errant 
Jews writings and compilation of NT, because of G-d's Infinite Wisdom 
in giving most of Torah orally, so that even Jewish 
rebels/non-believers, couldn't pervert it because they didn't spend 
enough time learning it/understanding it, didn't have access to it, 
or simply were not considered learned enough to contribute to it.

And then we could go on to Torat HaNistar - Kabbala - which is the 
Hidden Torah - which transcends this very physical world including 
all of our religious differences, which is true and completely not 
knowable by Hebrew linguistics.

It shouldn't be about "theology", but maybe it is not possible to 
separate theology out of Torah.  What else is Torah, but the 
blueprint of creation, and if you don't want to see it at that level, 
than at least, what is it, but the directions by G-d of how He wants 
to be worshipped and obeyed - for the good of all mankind and the 
universe, by the way - as it says everywhere in Torah - to the People 
that He chose to show the rest of the nations how, and anyone else 
who wants to be included, if they agree to be subject to Torah laws 
as written in simple Hebrew linguistic text in the Torah, with the 
Oral Torah expanding on exactly how each Mitzva is to be obeyed, and 
I don't ascribe to the belief that I/we are superior to all the rest 
of the nations, hence I am not "racist", but you really have to all 
acknowledge that we Jews were given much more responsibility than 
anyone else in the world by G-d as written in Torah (which is what 
this list is studying, not the Koran, not the Gita, not Confusious, 
etc.).  And I am very sorry if some non-Jews feel angry or jealous - 
no one says you cannot participate, "convert", or whatever it takes. 
But there are definitely 7 Noahide commandments/responsibilities that 
are laid out for you in the TORAH, ie; BIBLE, some of which have been 
very difficult to carry out, according to my observations.

At least this is what the TEXT of the Torah says, whether you want to 
acknowledge that G-d wrote it or not - B-Hebrew list - but that is 
not my problem.


Shoshanna, I can respect your theological argument (even if I am Christian
and not Jewish), but are you not contradicting yourself, since most of the
NT writers were Jewish. In that light, is not permissible to use a piece of
Jewish writing and apply it to another piece of Jewish writing? I thought
this was about linguistics, not theology
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