[b-hebrew] translations of important quotes using Rolf's ideas

Lisbeth S. Fried lizfried at umich.edu
Mon Apr 9 13:27:38 EDT 2007



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Kirk [mailto:peter at qaya.org]
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 1:00 PM
> To: Lisbeth S. Fried
> Cc: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] translations of important quotes using Rolf's
ideas
>
> On 09/04/2007 17:41, Lisbeth S. Fried wrote:
> > ...
> >> Your translation in fact looks quite similar in its English verb forms
> >> to the scholarly translation NRSV, and indeed to the traditional KJV.
> >> That is not to say that these translators did not have presuppositions,
> >> but perhaps that they did not allow those presuppositions to control
> >> their translation, and still less to control their understanding of the
> >> Hebrew verb system.
> >>
> > That is as it should be, it seems to me.
> >
>
> Indeed.
>
> > ...
> > As for 40:1, I don't see a Qatal. Do you mean another verse?
> >
>
> Sorry, I meant 40:2.
40:2 consists of all Qatals, and should all be in the past tense. It states
that the Jews have paid their service, their punishment is over, they had
received double at YHWH's hand for all their sins, but it's been paid, and
it's over.

What's the problem here? The Jews won't receive an end to their punishment
until they accept Christ?
>
> Perhaps a better example of QATAL from a future deictic viewpoint in
> Isaiah (but not Deutero-) is 8:23-9:1 (English 9:1-2), where the QATAL
> is explicitly about future events as indicated by HA'AXARON. Or do you
> take this as past as well?
>
> Of course if you try to claim that all prophecies are in fact past you
> will find people accusing you of presupposing that there is no genuine
> predictive prophecy (and even that the prophets made no attempt to
> predict the future) and allowing this presupposition to control your
> exegesis and your understanding of the Hebrew verb system.

Dear Peter,
To me this is another example of how Christian exegesis misreads the plain
meaning of the text. Who is the "he" that is doing all this? You see Jesus
who in the latter days will make the way glorious. That's not the plain
meaning, as you yourself note, since we have a Qatal in the second part, not
a Yiqtal.

This passage refers to Tiglath-Pileser III.
At first he treated the land of Zebulun and Naphtali with contempt (treated
lightly).
Then, later, he oppressed (treated heavily) the way of the sea, Transjordan,
and Galilee haGoim.
The lands of Zebulun and Naphtali are the very northern-most areas of
Israel. After conquering those areas, T-P III took Transjordan, and then the
seacoast, and the Galil.

The verbs for the "latter" time are perfects, and should be treated as such.
This is also the view of J. W. D. Watts's revised commentary on Isaiah, and
also the view of Blenkinsopp. Probably others too who are not intent on
seeing Christ predicted everywhere,
but rather real voices in a real world of present day realities.

Regards,
Liz Fried

>
> --
> Peter Kirk
> E-mail:  peter at qaya.org
> Blog:    http://www.qaya.org/blog/
> Website: http://www.qaya.org/
>






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