[b-hebrew] Psalm 22:16 - daqar as pierced ?

Schmuel schmuel at nyc.rr.com
Fri Sep 29 12:12:29 EDT 2006


Hi Folks,

>schmuel wrote:
>> .. daqar is a word used for a type of sword or spear
>> thrusting-through (implications of mortal or ultra-serious wound through the belly) 
>> it would appear to be a very poor fit for any verbal reading of Psalm 22.  Your thoughts ?
>> (Yes, I realize that there are other words also given for pierced alternatives, 
>>  however daqar is in a sense the primary discussion and significant).

Harold Holmyard - 
>HH: The word DAQAR is irrelevant to the textual issue in Psalm 22:17. I don't know whether you are 
>agreeing with this fact. 

Schmuel
Irrelevant in a direct sense.  However the argument is often made that DQR would be
the word that would be used if a verbal form for pierced was the author's intent.  
This is all over the anti-mish sites as an argument for the noun-form.  

Essentially .. 
  "it can't be a verb, its the wrong verb .. here is the right one(s). "
Especially DQR.  
  "thus it is a noun"

What encourages that argument is the translation as pierced in
Zechariah 12:10 so one may miss that it is a very different type of pierced.
That is why I included the Judaica Press, Soncino and JPS translations.

My point was that this argument is misrepresenting the consistent, restricted,
clear usage of DQR.  So the discussion of DQR is relevant in an indirect sense.

I wasn't expecting to reopen the full discussion :-)

Generally I find that Peter Kirk and yourself make the most interesting points 
within the verbal understanding. 

And I think the argument should generally be broken down to two distinct elements ..
1- noun or verb
2a- what verb
2b- what noun structure

I'm trying to get a few papers in my hands.. 
After that I will likely post some more thoughts.

Appreciate the contributions.  

Vadim more directly addressed by original question.
"dkr in Zech12:10 undoubtedly refers to thrusting with sword."

And this would make a very poor fit for any literal or metaphorical dogs 
or lions in Psalm 22.  Any way you splice or dice it.

Shalom,
Steven Avery
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic  




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