[b-hebrew] actual Hebrew question about Daniel 9:25
kwrandolph at gmail.com
Sat Sep 23 10:16:01 EDT 2006
On 9/22/06, Steve Miller <smille10 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> [Steve Miller] Thanks Karl. So you are saying that M$YX NGYD in v25 is just
> one person, and different from M$YX in v26. What then is the meaning of "and
> 62 weeks" in v25? "From the going forth of the word to restore and to build
> Jerusalem unto Messiah, the Prince, are seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks."
> If maschiach nageed came at 7 weeks only, why does it say "and 62 weeks"?
> Also, I know that you had already mentioned what you repeated above, but I
> was asking you something a bit different - was maschiach nageed in v25 one
> person or 2 persons? But since you restated what you had said before, I
> gather that your answer is "one person".
I misunderstood your question, I thought you were conflating the two
uses of M$YX in verses 25 and 26 to mean one person or were there two
different M$YX. I understand that there were two different
individuals, the one in verse 25 M$YX NGYD and the one in verse 26
referred to only a M$YX. The one in verse 25 is one individual.
As for the 62 sevens mentioned in verse 25, it is after mentioning the
number of sevens to the first M$YX, namely M$YX NGYD, where the focus
has returned to the city. Those 62 sevens have no relationship to M$YX
NGYD. Look at the context.
> > Concerning the question whether the time spans were contiguous or not,
> > either all of them were, or none. All the time spans are given using
> > the same linguistic and literary structures, so if one can have a gap,
> > then it is possible that all of them have gaps. If all of them can
> > have gaps, then the use of this prophecy to indicate the approximate
> > year of Jesus' death and resurrection is meaningless. But if none of
> > the spans have gaps, then the Dispensationalist understanding is
> > wrong.
> [Steve Miller] I agree with your logic. I disagree with one of your facts:
> "All the time spans are given using the same linguistic and literary
> structures". Dan 9:24 is unique. I fail to see its similarity compared to
> other time spans in the Bible. "70 weeks are divided upon your people and
> upon your holy city to ....". What other time span in the Bible is given in
> a similar form to this? The Hebrew word for "divided" XTK is used only in
> this one place in the Bible. Ernest Klein's Etymological Dictionary of the
> Hebrew Language gives the meaning from Aramaic "cut" or from Arabic "tear
> apart". LXX translated it with "suntemno" = cut in pieces.
All the time spans in these few verses are given in the same
linguistic and literary structures. Therefore, if one can have gaps in
it, then all can have gaps. If the others don't have gaps, then the
one does not either.
As for the meaning of XTK, this is a hapax legomai. the context
indicates that it has the meaning of "to be determined" (as defined in
Lisowski Konkordanz). Looking at the LXX, the term συντεμνω has the
meaning of "to delimit" (i.e. cut off what is beyond as in territory
of a kingdom), "to shorten" as in abridging speech or of time, "to
limit" as in expenses, but nowhere is it used to mean "to cut into
pieces" (that is one of the uses of τεμνω). Assuming that the
translators of the LXX used the right term, and looking at its
context, "to determine" may best be understood in an archaic sense, as
in bringing to an end, limiting.
Looking at cognate languages should only be suggestions, as the words
may have very similar meanings, or even opposite meanings, or some
other unpredictable variation in meaning when crossing the language
> > Karl W. Randolph.
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