[b-hebrew] Dates of Ezra and Nehemiah

Shoshanna Walker rosewalk at concentric.net
Sun Sep 17 22:30:35 EDT 2006

I quoted Rashi, and not R' Yose's "scheme"

There is much more detail of chazal, of which kings reigned when, and 
that wasn't the issue when you discredited Rashi - now you are just 
adding  another issue to your reluctance to trust chazal.

In any case, this list has been laboring over this for weeks, because 
of the reluctance to give OUR chazal any credit for knowing OUR 
history - but you go around circles and circles with no answer, just 
because you want to believe that other sources besides chazal,  know 
better - and if you have such detailed accounts from - where? - about 
which kings ruled and in which order - then WHY ARE YOU STILL 
DEBATING THIS AFTER 2 - 3 WEEKS?  Does the number 7   refer to weeks 
or days or  years or sets of 7 years, you can't even come to a 
consensus that Daniel's prophecy relates to  the FUTURE and not to 
the past - give me a break - when it is all laid out very lucidly by 


On 9/18/06, Shoshanna Walker wrote:
> As I recall, the whole basis of discrediting Rashi, and the counting
> of events from the year of creation, is that first Temple was
> destroyed - according to secular sources - in 586 BC, while Seder
> Olam, and Rashi, says it was 422 BC (as computed from the time of
> creation of the world) - and my question, is - what are the sources
> for saying that it was 586 BC??  Who had better records than
> Chazal????

Seder Olam quotes R' Yose in b. Avoda Zara.  Rashi probably also
depends on this tractate.  We do not know what records R' Yose
had.  You may believe that HZ"L, including R' Yose, had better
records that we just don't have anymore.  However, we do have
detailed records from Babylonian, Persian, and Greek sources and
periods, from the times that the events happened, and not a thousand
years later, that include detailed accounts of which kings ruled
and in what order, and which years were intercalated, all of which
allow us to be able to date Jerusalem's fall as it is described in
Babylonian sources.   The "whole basis" however is not simply the
fall of the first Temple but the length and description of the Persian
period which is ridiculously short in R' Yose's scheme.

Yitzhak Sapir
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