[b-hebrew] b-hebrew Digest-angels

Shoshanna Walker rosewalk at concentric.net
Tue Sep 5 15:24:23 EDT 2006


What do you mean these are quotes of angels without a real direct 
close connection to G-d?  What close connection? Angels are servants 
of G-d, they do work for G-d - as in all your quotes.  No one denies 
that angels do things like these.  In fact, the verses you cite, 
where angels do things, contrast with the following verses, where G-d 
does things without intervention of angels.

Ex 12:12
Deut 26:8

As G-d says clearly - sometimes G-d does things, sometimes G-d sends 
angels to do things.

I don't see that angels have authority - they do G-d's bidding - just 
as Satan did with Job, despite Harold's claim.  If you read the text, 
it is clear that Satan twice asked G-d's permission to test Job, and 
got the permission, with conditions, which Satan followed.  No 
rebellion, no doing anything without G-d's permission, no authority 
to do anything without G-d's permission.

So, when Daniel gets prophecy from an angel instead of G-d, that is a 
lower level than getting it directly from G-d, not that it wasn't 
prophecy.  During the age of prophecy, 1000 years, there were many 
many Israelite prophets.  Apparently not most of them received direct 
prophecy and gave prophecies that were relevant to future generations 
of Israel.



Shoshanna

Wrote as follows and I thought it interesting to see where the term 
"angel" might be used without a real direct, close connection to the 
Lord or God.

Harold I am getting tired of all this - and it's only Monday.

It doesn't matter (to me) that the first Christians were Jews if they
either misunderstood Torah, or didn't learn it, or started making up
their own beliefs, nor if you quote sources that are not Torah.

There is not one example in the Jewish scriptures where any angel,
Satan included, opposes God's will, nor of a fiction named Mastema,
who allegedly induced God to test Abraham through the sacrifice of
Isaac.

You are right that his job is that of tempter - he tempts mankind
away from obedience to G-d, so that when they choose G-d over Satan,
they are thereby elevated - and that he was the one who tempted Chava.

But some day we will all be on an elevated spiritual level, and his
job will be over.

If you are interested in a Jewish perspective, see
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/satan.html

Shoshanna

KJV Exodus 33:2 And I will send an angel before thee; and I will 
drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the 
Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:

KJV Exodus 23:20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in 
the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

KJV Exodus 23:23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee 
in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the 
Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

KJV Exodus 32:34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of 
which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before 
thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin 
upon them.

KJV Exodus 33:2 And I will send an angel before thee; and I will 
drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the 
Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:

Notice that these quotes are from the Torah.

And the question is, if an Angel could have this kind of authority 
then if Daniel's writings did come through the work of an angel, why 
should Daniel' writings not be on a par with Prophecy?

And I am not trying to give you a hard time. I just like to see those 
of good staunch Judaism start to question and then we all learn. 
After all some of the most devout followers of Messiah are of Jewish 
decent.

John B. Senterfitt
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