[b-hebrew] Daniel

K Randolph kwrandolph at gmail.com
Mon Sep 4 18:49:58 EDT 2006


On 9/4/06, Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk at concentric.net> wrote:
> Harold I am getting tired of all this - and it's only Monday.
I'm surprised that both of you have kept at it this long.

> It doesn't matter (to me) that the first Christians were Jews if they
> either misunderstood Torah, or didn't learn it, or started making up
> their own beliefs, nor if you quote sources that are not Torah.
You quote sources that are not only not Torah, but not anywhere in
Tanakh. So it seems to me inconsistent for your complaint at which
sources Harold quotes. No, "Torah" does NOT include "Oral Torah".

> There is not one example in the Jewish scriptures where any angel,
> Satan included, opposes God's will, nor of a fiction named Mastema,
> who allegedly induced God to test Abraham through the sacrifice of
> Isaac.
Where did you get this "Mastema"? It is found neither in Tanakh nor
New Testament.

As for opposing God's will, the prophets are full of complaints where
Israel opposes God's will. But neither Israel nor Satan nor any other
creature can go beyond the limits God places on all.

> You are right that his job is that of tempter - he tempts mankind
> away from obedience to G-d, so that when they choose G-d over Satan,
> they are thereby elevated - and that he was the one who tempted Chava.
> But some day we will all be on an elevated spiritual level, and his
> job will be over.
> If you are interested in a Jewish perspective, see
> http://www.outreachjudaism.org/satan.html
Interesting site.

Because of the centrality of the resurrection in Christian belief, I
was curious to see what he had to say on it. In it, I found the
following quote, "The resurrection story, on the other hand, is a
biological and scientific impossibility.  Thus, the only reason for
believing its miraculous occurrence -- defying all natural laws -- is
the believer's total reliance on the credibility of the divine
author." In this statement, Rabbi Singer has effectively negated
Judaism, which, like Christianity, is based on claimed actions of God
into history, actions like Elijah going to heaven in a chariot of
fire, Elisha hitting the waters of the Jordan with a piece of cloth,
at which point they part and allow Elisha to cross on dry ground,
where he puts a piece of wood over where iron sank and the iron floats
on the water, or where Moshe threw wood into springs of bitter water,
and they became sweet to drink, or later Moshe going up on the
mountain for forty days and nights neither eating nor drinking, yet
coming down healthy, as well as many other stories. I really think you
want a better source than that.

> Shoshanna

Why doesn't one of you simply say, "I will not respond unless you
answer with data that meets XXX standard" and let the discussion die a
natural death?

Karl W. Randolph.

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