[b-hebrew] Judges 16:30 - Verb with no use, MY PROBLEM!
B. M. Rocine
brocine at twcny.rr.com
Tue Oct 3 19:36:38 EDT 2006
Not to answer for Peter, but to support him:
I think clauses constructed with the verbal root HYH are not equivalent
to noun sentences (a.k.a. verbless clause). In other words, I do not
think of HYH as a copula. Rather it means refers essentially to a
On the other hand, we can't force a particular wooden translation to
work in every case of HYH. Sometimes HYH can even refer to someone
"coming along" as in movement to a place.
Genesis 2:25 in particular would be something like this: "They came
into being naked."
Hoping to help.
kgraham0938 at comcast.net wrote:
> Hello Peter,
> I am curious about your statement about WAYIH:YW = become as opposed to 'were.' What do you think is the difference btw Judges 16:30 and Genesis 2:25?
> WAYIH:YW $N"HEM `RWMMIYM.... would you translate this as "They became naked.." or am I misreading your point? Thanks
> Kelton Graham
> KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Peter Kirk <peter at qaya.org>
>> On 03/10/2006 18:08, Chris and Nel wrote:
>>> ... I am so used to
>>> reading sentences without "to be " in them that I still can not fathom its
>>> purpose here, considering that without it I actually arrived at the correct
>>> translation without looking at the English.
>>> Now can someone be kind enough pleeeease..... to relieve me of my making a
>>> fool of
>>> myself on this board?
>> The distinction may be that sentences in which "to be" is omitted are
>> usually (always?) stative, indicating a continuing state, like English
>> "be", whereas those starting with WAYHIY, and here with its plural form
>> WAYIHYUW, indicate actions, like English "became". Thus a literal
>> translation would be "And the dead... became more than the dead...". The
>> meaning is of course "More people died... than...", an action. A
>> translation like Kelton's "Those who were dead ... *were* many, more
>> than..." is misleading because it suggests a state, a count of bodies
>> already dead. But in fact we have an action here, a large number of
>> people dying. (Dare I suggest a prototype of today's suicide bombers,
>> except here we have an Israelite killing Gentiles in Gaza?)
B. M. Rocine
Living Word Church
6101 Court St. Rd.
Syracuse, NY 13026
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