[b-hebrew] "Desire of Women" in Heb. Text of Dan. 11:37

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Wed Nov 15 15:11:13 EST 2006

Dear Yitzhak,

I have been reading the discussion of Haggai 2. It seems that everyone is
getting away from the text in question and we probably should return to it.

Malachi 3:1 uses a different Hebrew word, chapetz, for the idea of "delight,
pleasure" (See TWOT, Volume 1, pages 709-710),
Malachi 3:1, "and YHWH, whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple, the
messenger of the covenant in whom you delight in: behold, he shall come,
saith the YHWH Sebaoth."
chamdath is used in Haggai 2;7, ..."and 'the desire' of all nations shall

Now, my question, should we not be looking at the future use of BO
(BETH-ALEPH-HOLEM "come" that is in common with both passages?

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Yitzhak Sapir" <yitzhaksapir at gmail.com>
To: <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] "Desire of Women" in Heb. Text of Dan. 11:37

> On 11/15/06, Peter Kirk wrote:
> > On 14/11/2006 23:06, Yitzhak Sapir wrote:
> >
> > > ...  Also, skepticism about the historical reality
> > > underlying the Biblical claims is not a theological position.
Theology is the
> > > study of the divine and the study of history does not need to be
related to
> > > the study of the divine (unless that is a theological position you
hold).  So
> > > the position that the book of Ezra must be historically accurate
because it is
> > > in the divinely sanctioned canon of books is a theological position.
But the
> > > view that the book of Ezra is not necessarily accurate is not a
> > > position.  To put the point further, the book of Hebrews may be in
> > > theological view, a 1st century book allowing us to see the views of
the Jews
> > > at that time.  But for me, it is just a book, ...
> >
> > Yitzhak, I agree with most of what you are saying in this message. It is
> > important to distinguish between the meaning intended for example by
> > Haggai and later interpretations of his book.
> >
> > But on the point above I must disagree with you. You are taking a
> > theological position by rejecting the accuracy of Ezra or the authority
> > of Hebrews. It may be a negative theological position, like that of the
> > atheist who takes the position that there is no God, or perhaps that of
> > the agnostic who takes the position that the existence of God cannot be
> > proved or disproved, but it is still the position you take on a
> > theological issue and so a theological position.
> Just because you choose a text to be theologically meaningful to you does
> not automatically make my position regarding that text also theological.
> I choose to view the Wall Street Journal's stock quotes page as a list of
> verse numbers that when decoded give me important verses that God has
> provided me, that does not mean that most people's reading of that stock
> quotes page is theological too.  I can read the Mesha inscription and its
> mention of Kamosh without assuming the theological position that Mesha
> was an evil idol-worshipper just because he worshipped Kamosh and the
> Israelites worshipped Yahweh.   A theological position is only one that
> allows you to better study God.  For example, the belief that the book of
> Hebrews should not be held authoritative in order to understand God is a
> theological position.   The belief that the book of Hebrews should not be
> held historically accurate without having critically examined it using
> sound historiographic methods in order to understand history is not a
> theological position.  It does not have to do with studying God.  It has
> do with studying history.  If your position is that in order to understand
> the divine message, the Bible must be held historically accurate, then
> that is a theological position, and it probably implies for you that the
> Bible is historically accurate.  The same can be said for Harold and the
> book of Hebrews or for Shoshanna and the Talmud.  However, it doesn't
> mean that all the historians who study the Bible using critical methods
> are taking a theological position, unless their use of critical methods is
> designed in some ways to better help them understand God, rather than
> just history.
> Yitzhak Sapir
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