[b-hebrew] Answering Avi: I think this is what Kirk asked for

Shoshanna Walker rosewalk at concentric.net
Mon Jun 26 22:30:05 EDT 2006


No one said that the commandments on this list are special - the 
entire Torah is filled with G-d saying He wants to be obeyed - G-d 
wants ALL of His commandments obeyed.  See the 2 tochachot in the 
Torah, they are the most detailed accounts of what will happen if we 
obey, and what will happen if we don't.  It's very clear from the 
text of the Torah itself.

Vayikra chapter 26
Devarim chapter 28

Shoshanna




Who said it makes a diffrence to God ? maybe it was the rabbis who
desided it made a diffrence. can you show from the Bible it self that
God showed that any of this list makes a diffrence in his eyes ?


On 6/26/06, Karl Randolph <kwrandolph at email.com> wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Shoshanna Walker" <rosewalk at concentric.net>
> >
> > "Levicus 23, the Bible speaks about Atonement, Yom Kippur, and the
> > Bible says on this day we have to afflict our souls. How do you
> > afflict your souls? This is a commandment of 'God.' It is not clear
> > how you would fulfill this law, and 'God' is giving this as a very
> > important law.
> >
> Is this the correct understanding of the verse?
>
> "Afflict" I don't think is the correct meaning, rather
> humility, humbleness, and likewise "soul" means
> more than English (and for that matter, German or
> Yiddish term), so that humbling one's life means
> setting side one's pride to be humble before God.
>
> > When it says [Exodus 12:2] "This month shall mark for you the
> > beginning of the months"?  To which months is this referring?  Is it
> > referring to Egyptian months (where the Jews were living at the time)
> > or Chaldean months (from where their patriarch Abraham originated)?
> > Solar months or lunar months?  Without an oral tradition, there is no
> > way to know to what this verse is referring
> >
> The context answers this question. The month
> of Abib is meant. That was neither Egyptian nor
> Chaldean. The people living then understood
> Moses. What has happened is that we have lost
> much over time, making any explanation not
> original with Moses, but with those who came
> much later no longer familiar with Hebrew months.
>
> > When the Torah forbids certain birds [Lev. 11:13-19], does that mean
> > that all other birds are permitted?  Or are there sign for birds like
> > there are for animals [Lev. 11:2-8]?  How can anyone know whether
> > biblical law permits or forbids eating ducks, geese, and turkeys?
> >
> Why not?
>
> >    When the Torah [Ex. 16:29] says "Let no man leave his place on the
> > seventh day" to what place is this referring?  Does it mean his home,
> > his property if he has more than one home, his neighborhood, his
> > city, or something else ?  In fact, Isaiah [66:23] says "It shall be
> > that at every New Moon and on every sabbath all mankind will come to
> > bow down before Me - said the L-rd" which implies that people will
> > leave their homes on the sabbath and go to worship the L-rd .
> > Evidently, Isaiah did not understand this verse in Exodus as the
> > simple reading would have it.
> >
> Again, the problem is taking the verse out of context.
> Not all commands are universal, many given were for
> specific times and places. E.g. 2 Samuel 5:17-25.
>
> > What does the Torah mean when it [Ex. 20:10] forbids "work" on the
> > sabbath?  What work is forbidden and what is not?
>
> Look at the uses of the different words. (BD refers
> to any work. ML)KH refers to work taken to advance
> one's career. ML)KH was forbidden, not (BDH. Works
> of mercy and worship are allowed.
>
> > Without an oral explanation of the details of this forbidden work, it
> > is impossible to know what the Torah means.  How did G-d command our
> > fathers to keep Shabbat?  "You shall keep Shabbat holy, as I have
> > commanded your fathers" (Jeremiah 17:22).
> >
> Again Jeremiah was referencing a written set of law.
>
> > The sections of Exodus [ch. 21] and Deuteronomy [ch. 21-25] that deal
> > with monetary and physical crimes do not seem to contain enough
> > information to formulate a working legal system.  How can a court
> > legislate with so few guidelines?  Certainly, for courts to function
> > based on biblical law there must have been more information given in
> > the form of an oral law
> >
> That's lawyer speak. Looking at actions, taking by
> fraud and burglary are both stealing, already forbidden.
>
> > The laws of inheritance as stated in Numbers [27:8-11] cannot begin
> > to address all of the many complicated situations that can and have
> > arisen throughout the generations.  Without an oral law, how does a
> > society apply the biblical inheritance laws?
> >
> > How does one fulfill the biblical commandments of circumcision [Gen.
> > 17:10-14], fringes [Num. 15:38-39], and booths [Lev. 23:42]?  There
> > is not enough detail in the biblical directive to know how to fulfill
> > these commandments properly.  What are fringes?  What is a booth?
> > How much and where must be cut off in circumcision?  The biblical
> > text is too silent to enable following these commandments unless
> > there was an oral explanation
> >
> > A baby must be circumcised on the eighth day [Gen. 17:12].  What if
> > the eighth day falls out on the sabbath?  Can a circumcision take
> > place on a sabbath or is that considered work?  What if the baby is
> > sick?  For what conditions would it be permitted to delay the
> > circumcision?
> >
> There's a reference in the New Testament showing
> that circumcision was practiced on the Sabbath during
> Second Temple times.
>
> > The Passover sacrifice must be brought by every Jew [Ex. 12:47] on
> > the day before Passover [Num. 9:5].  What happens if that day falls
> > out on the sabbath?  Surely, slaughtering and offering a sacrifice is
> > work.  Which takes precedence -- the sabbath or the paschal
> > sacrifice?  There must be an oral law to explain this if these laws
> > were intended to be put into practice
> >
> > Numbers 8 describes the building of the menorah in the temple. This
> > work of the candlestick, which was a beaten gold unto the shaft
> > thereof, unto the flowers thereof with beaten work according to the
> > pattern which the Lord had showed Moses.  Where is the picture of the
> > pattern?
> >
> > There is a reliance on sages for interpreting the law in Exod  18:36
> > and in Deut 17:8-11.  In Deut. 17:8-11   What possible knowledge is
> > there that can be hidden?  If there is no oral law, then the only
> > basis for judgement is in the Torah which is open for anyone to
> > study.  Clearly, the entire need for the above process of going to
> > the central court and following their ruling implies that there is an
> > oral tradition which also serves as the basis for judgement.
>
> I didn't answer all the examples you gave above,
> enough though that one can see why many consider
> the Oral Law irrelevant, unneeded. That some verses
> can be understood linguistically as having different
> meanings than what Oral Law teaches, and many
> refer to previously written laws making Oral Law
> irrelevant, is the reasons that and many others don't
> follow Oral Law.
>
> Where we agree is that both of us hold the written
> Tanakh as God's Word and, except for copyist errors,
> trustworthy in all areas.
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
>
> --
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