[b-hebrew] oral Torah

Lisbeth S. Fried lizfried at umich.edu
Fri Jun 23 18:31:31 EDT 2006

I've heard a few  talks at SBL in which it was argued that in all the
debates shown between Jesus and others, Jesus took the Sadducean position
most of the time. However, though I can see I'm on the wrong list here, I
think this was purposeful to separate the Christians from the Sadducees who
fomented the revolt against Rome.
But, this thread has come to an end.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-
> bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Brak
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 5:58 PM
> To: Peter Kirk
> Cc: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] oral Torah
> Peter Kirk wrote:
> >On 23/06/2006 21:11, Brak wrote:
> >
> >
> >>...
> >>So just because you have Jesus debate with other Pharisees doesn't mean
> >>that Jesus rejected the Oral Law, nor does it mean that Jesus wasn't a
> >>Pharisee Himself. ...
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Indeed. But if you read the gospels, which are (as James pointed out)
> >more or less the only records we have of the historical Jesus, we find
> >that Jesus rarely debated with the Pharisees, but more frequently he
> >simply condemned them - and vice versa. For example, see the repeated
> >"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!" of
> >Matthew 23. Note that he doesn't say "Pharisees of that other school",
> >he addresses all Pharisees, and all teachers of the law. It is clear
> >that he is not counting himself as one of them, but as an outsider
> >challenging all of them. That doesn't mean that he disagreed with all of
> >them on every point. But it does make it impossible to claim that Jesus
> >was himself a Pharisee.
> >
> >
> >
> Its called intra-sect criticism, aka fighting amongst yourselves. I am a
> Seventh-day Adventist Christian. Many times I talk about Christians
> doing things that they shouldn't do, and even Seventh-day Adventist
> doing things that they shouldn't do. Since I criticized other Christians
> does that make me not a Christian? Since I criticized other Seventh-day
> Adventist does that make me not a Seventh-day Adventist?
> Of course I am still both a Christian and a Seventh-day adventist even
> though I have criticized both. Hence Jesus can be a Pharisee and
> criticize them at the same time. So it is not an impossibility for Jesus
> to be a Pharisee, in fact when all the info is laid out it points to Him
> being one.
> >Earlier you mentioned verses 2-3 of the same chapter, where Jesus tells
> >people to be careful to do everything that these same teachers of the
> >law and Pharisees tell them to do; but in the light of what follows,
> >that can only be understood as ironic!
> >
> >
> >
> Not really ironic, but rather a grave warning to those who teach/preach
> one thing, and then turn around and do the opposite. Jesus was
> criticizing that they weren't practicing what they preached. How they
> gave a good talk, but not a good walk. How they taught and instructed
> the people to faithfully observe the Law (both written and oral) but
> ignored to do it themselves.
> I think, if you wish, we should continue this discussion of-board, as
> all this Jesus talk really has nothing to do with the forum - at least
> none that I can see.
> But I am enjoying our discussion. So please do replay back to me. In
> fact we can CC all those interested in this current thread.
> B"H
> John Steven
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