[b-hebrew] Mashiach

Shoshanna Walker rosewalk at concentric.net
Thu Aug 31 10:51:43 EDT 2006


Dear Harold

I don't have time today to look up every single verse you send.  They 
are only translations and many translations have an agenda.

A covenant cannot be a person.  A person cannot be a covenant.  A 
covenant is an agreement, a promise, a mutual "contract".

Isaiah 49: 8  refers to THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL  "...In a time of favor 
I will answer you, and on a day of salvation I assist you. I will 
protect you, and I will make YOU A PEOPLE OF THE COVENANT, to restore 
the land and to cause you to inherit desolate heritages"

Messianic prophecy concerning redemption of AM YISRAEL, but it is not 
Isaiah who is doing it.

Isaiah 42  1-5   G-d promises to send Mashiach, but He doesn't use 
the word Mashiach - as Yigal has pointed out.

Isaiah 53  1-3   This is a prophecy foretelling what the nations and 
their kings will exclaim when they witness Israel's rejuvination. 
The "victim" here is AM YISRAEL.    There is no context of Mashiach 
here that suddenly you say this is referring to a person.

Previously  52:13  Same thing, the object is AM YISRAEL - referred to 
by G-d as His "servant"

If you want to read into the text, a pre-conceived concept, that is 
your prerogative.  But you have to look more carefully at the 
contexts in the text, ie when the prophet (and G-d) refer to prophet, 
Israel, G-d and Mashiach.

And I can't spend hours on this today.

Shoshanna





Dear Shoshanna,

>Isaiah 49: 1-5    As he prepares to prophesy regarding many 
>countries, Isaiah stresses that G-d selected him for this purpose - 
>even from the womb.
>
>Verse 6 does not refer to Mashiach, because Mashiach does not bring 
>salvation to "the ends of the earth".  Mashiach brings salvation to 
>Israel, and AS A BY-PRODUCT, the rest of the world will know G-d and 
>will worship G-d - as they were commanded  (7 Noahide laws).
>

HH: It is the same thing. A prophet does not have to mention every 
fact each time he brings up a subject. Isaiah talks about the 
messianic era in his prophecies relating to the servant and clearly 
discusses the salvation of Israel. For example, the last part of 
Isaiah 52 talks about the servant, but the first part talks about the 
salvation of Israel:

Is. 52:1 Awake, awake, O Zion, clothe yourself with strength. Put on 
your garments of splendor, O Jerusalem, the holy city. The 
uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again.
Is. 52:2 Shake off your dust; rise up, sit enthroned, O Jerusalem. 
Free yourself from the chains on your neck, O captive Daughter of 
Zion.
Is. 52:3 For this is what the LORD says: ìYou were sold for nothing, 
and without money you will be redeemed.î

>"Light for the nations" is what Israel is called.
>

HH: The person is a covenant to the people of Israel. It is the same 
person in Isaiah 49 as in Isaiah 42.

Is. 42:6 ìI, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take 
hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant 
for the people and a light for the Gentiles,

Is. 49:8 This is what the LORD says: ìIn the time of my favor I will 
answer you, and in the day of salvation I will help you; I will keep 
you and will make you to be a covenant for the people, to restore the 
land and to reassign its desolate inheritances,


>Most commentaries agree that Verse 7  begins a new prophecy:  When 
>G-d redeems Israel, which has been 'despised...loathed...a servant," 
>its disgrace will be ended and it will be honored by kings and 
>rulers, who will recognize that redemption came about "because of 
>Hashem".  Ibn Ezra says that the prophet is still speaking about 
>himself and the contempt with which his prophecies have been treated.
>


HH: It is a person, the same person as in Isaiah 52-53. Compare the 
two passages:

Is. 49:7 This is what the LORD says ó the Redeemer and Holy One of 
Israel ó to him who was despised and abhorred by the nation, to the 
servant of rulers: ìKings will see you and rise up, princes will see 
and bow down, because of the LORD, who is faithful, the Holy One of 
Israel, who has chosen you.î

Is. 52:13 See, my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and 
lifted up and highly exalted.
Is. 52:14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him ó his 
appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form 
marred beyond human likeness ó
Is. 52:15 so will he sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their 
mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, 
and what they have not heard, they will understand.

Is. 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and 
familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he 
was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Is. 53:4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, 
yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.

HH: This person is rejected by Israel at first. Note that Isaiah says 
"we" esteemed him not, referring to Israel not esteeming him.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard




>
>
>
>
>
>HH: The entire section shows that the things this person does are far
>too great for Isaiah, as great a prophet as Isaiah was:
>
>Is. 49:1 è Listen to me, you islands; hear this, you distant nations:
>Before I was born the LORD called me; from my birth he has made mention
>of my name.
>Is. 49:2 He made my mouth like a sharpened sword, in the shadow of his
>hand he hid me; he made me into a polished arrow and concealed me in his
>quiver.
>Is. 49:3 He said to me, ÏYou are my servant, Israel, in whom I will
>display my splendor.Ó
>Is. 49:4 But I said, ÏI have labored to no purpose; I have spent my
>strength in vain and for nothing. Yet what is due me is in the LORDÌs
>hand, and my reward is with my God.Ó
>Is. 49:5 And now the LORD says Û he who formed me in the womb to be his
>servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself, for I
>am honored in the eyes of the LORD and my God has been my strength Û
>Is. 49:6 he says: ÏIt is too small a thing for you to be my servant to
>restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
>I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my
>salvation to the ends of the earth.Ó
>Is. 49:7 This is what the LORD says Û the Redeemer and Holy One of
>Israel Û to him who was despised and abhorred by the nation, to the
>servant of rulers: ÏKings will see you and rise up, princes will see and
>bow down, because of the LORD, who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel,
>who has chosen you.Ó
>Is. 49:8 è This is what the LORD says: ÏIn the time of my favor I will
>answer you, and in the day of salvation I will help you; I will keep you
>and will make you to be a covenant for the people, to restore the land
>and to reassign its desolate inheritances,
>Is. 49:9 to say to the captives, ÎCome out,Ì and to those in darkness,
>ÎBe free!Ì ÏThey will feed beside the roads and find pasture on every
>barren hill.
>Is. 49:10 They will neither hunger nor thirst, nor will the desert heat
>or the sun beat upon them. He who has compassion on them will guide them
>and lead them beside springs of water.
>Is. 49:11 I will turn all my mountains into roads, and my highways will
>be raised up.
>Is. 49:12 See, they will come from afar Û some from the north, some from
>the west, some from the region of Aswan.Ó
>
>Yours,
>Harold Holmyard
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>
>.
>
>


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