[b-hebrew] PS Re: Daniel 11:22
rosewalk at concentric.net
Wed Aug 30 18:26:57 EDT 2006
Daniel 9:26 again is talking about a king, not Mashiach. It is King
Agrippa, the last of the Jewish kings, at the end of the Second
Temple era. After his death, the "prince" in this verse, the Roman
Titus, would command the destruction of the Temple, which will not be
rebuilt until after the war (of Gog and Magog), in Messianic times.
Also, in this verse, "Ve'Ain Lo" means - "and will exist no longer",
it is not a reference to Mashiach, and it does not refer to someone
dying for other people.
Verse 27 refers to a Roman emperor who would make a treaty with the
Jewish nation but would break it, and the "mute abomination" refers
to a temple of idolatry that Hadrian erected on the Temple Mount.
"Shavuim" in verse 25 is not the plural of shavua - week. This
refers to a set of seven years.
Isaiah 53 is a prophecy foretelling what the nations and their kings
will exclaim when they witness Israel's rejuvination. When Israel's
exile is ended, the nations will marvel that such a generation could
have survived the expulsion from "the land of the living", ie; the
Land of Israel. It is not talking about the resurrection of a single
>According to the sources that I cited, promising Mashiach, Torah
>doesn't tell us that Mashiach will atone our sins. Mashiach will
>repair Torah observance, that is not atoning. Mashiach being someone
>who is resurrected, is also not in the Torah. Resurrection comes to
>all or most or many of us (I don't remember the qualifications by
>heart) AFTER Mashiach.
HH: That's good, Shoshanna. You confirm what Peter said about
non-Christian Jews and their ideas. Of course Christian Jews see things
differently. The Messiah's atonement for sin and resurrection are there
in Hebrew Bible. First century Jews saw this before the name "Christian"
even existed. The fact that a lot of Jews do not want to see it does not
change the reality of its presence. Daniel says that the Messiah was cut
off. He was killed:
Dan. 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off,
but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a
flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and
in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation
to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it
desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be
poured upon the desolate.
HH: If you start from a decree to rebuild Jerusalem after the Babylonian
exile and count forward, the Messiah had to be cut off about the time
that Jesus died:
Dan. 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of
the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the
Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street
shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
HH: There were 7 + 62 = 69 weeks of years, or 483 years. The command
to rebuild Jerusalem is variously understood, but whether it was by
Cyrus or Artaxerxes, it still leads up to the time of Christ, at which
point the Messiah was cut off.
HH: Isaiah 53 explains his death as an atonement for sin, since the
servant of Isaiah is the Davidic king.
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