[b-hebrew] Daniel 11:22

Yigal Levin leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il
Wed Aug 30 00:56:48 EDT 2006

Dear Shoshanna,

Daniel is obviously not a "Christian" book, since it was written many years 
before there was such a thing as Christianity. That's not the issue. Both 
you and John B. Senterfitt seem to assume that the book contains prophecies 
about the future. John quoted a common Christian understanding of Daniel as 
foretelling the coming (and return) of Jesus. You quote a Jewish 
understanding of it foretelling events in later Jewish history - and there 
are Jewish interpretations that DO understand these verses as referring to 
the Messiah. Both interpretations are equally legitimate in their own 
religious contexts. What you forget and John may not know, is that this list 
is neither a Jewish list or a Christian one - you have no justification for 
opposing  "foreign doctrine into OUR (meaning Jewish) scripture", just as 
John has no justification for assuming that the Christian interpretation is 
the only one that is legitimate.

Besides, "Rome will be able to conquer the countries surrounding the Land of 
Israel without fear of Hashmonean Intervention" - come on!

And now a serious question: if "the rabbis" (of the "great assembly") 
considered Daniel to be prophetic, why was it not included in the Nevi'im 
(as it is in the Christian canon - that is, together with the "prophetic 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shoshanna Walker" <rosewalk at concentric.net>
To: <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Cc: <millenia05 at earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:07 AM
Subject: [b-hebrew] Daniel 11:22

> NONE of these verses refer to any "anti-christ" - which is a foreign
> concept after all, if this were a Christian book, the rabbis would
> not have included it in our Tanach.
> Verse 22 refers to the covenant that the Jews made with the Romans -
> ie; they will also be crushed by them - this does not refer to
> Mashiach.
> Verse 21 refers to the Roman Empire, not to an "anti- christ"
> ("contemptible one" = Roman empire)
> Verse 20:  The Hashmonean Dynasty will succeed Antiochus in
> Jerusalem, but it will eventually fall as a result of a battle of
> succession between the two brothers, Aristobulos and Hyrcanus.
> Verse 23:  By signing a "holy covenant" of friendship (see verses 28,
> 30) with the Hashmoneans, Rome will be able to conquer the countries
> surrounding the Land of Israel without fear of Hashmonean
> Intervention.
> PLEASE don't put foreign doctrine into our scripture, where it does not 
> exist.
> Thank you
> Shoshanna
> Seeing as how I am quite new to this endeavor I would appreciate it
> if I am not acting according to b-hebrew protocol, that you let me
> know.
> And so, assuming I am ok, I will go ahead and ask my question.
> Is there any conceivable way that Daniel 11:22 and the last statement
> "also prince of covenant" could be in reference to Messiah?
> I know the verses before and after are obviously referring to the
> antichrist but could it be that verse 22 is a nugget so easily
> overlooked?
> John B. Senterfitt
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