[b-hebrew] Yahoshua/Yehosua

YODAN yodanco at yodanco.com
Tue Apr 4 18:01:00 EDT 2006


Hello Herman, 

 

Thanks for the clarification.  (I was already afraid that my name – Rivka –
wasn’t a real first name of a Jewess of ancient times! :-) ) 

 

With regards to the names of Jews in ancient times, I wouldn't be surprised
if there were several people with the same name (Yose, the example you gave)
so there was a need in distinguishing them by adding their father's name, or
their occupation, or their place of residence, etc. but this was not done
consistently.  

 

Indeed, Ashekenazi Jews seem to like giving Hebrew name and it’s meaning in
Yiddish, especially to boys (girls sometimes ended up with Yiddish names
only and some today think these are to be used as their Hebrew names).
Another custom was to use the name and a symbol related to it when using the
names of Ya’akov’s sons: Yahudah Arieh (lion being the symbol of the Tribe
of Yehudah), Naftali Tzvi (for the gazelle that’s the symbol or Naftali),
Binyamin Ze’ev (like Herzl’s Hebrew name) because Benyamin’s tribal symbol
is a wulf, and sometimes they used one name in Hebrew and one in Yiddish
(Binyamin Wulf, etc.).  Very interesting topic!

 

Kol tuv,

 

Rivka 

 

 

********************************

Yodan Publishing

P.O. Box 60655

Palo Alto, CA 94306-0655 

 

www.Yodanco.com

 

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Herman Meester
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 2:38 PM
To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Yahoshua/Yehosua

 

Dear Rivka,

 

I'm sorry, I think I have expressed myself wrongly. What I did mean

was, for example, one's "first name" could be "Ted", but his

"official" name is Theodore, and maybe even a few extra names given at

baptism. I think such a thing did not exist in Hellenistic period

Judaism. For example, the characters of the Mishna have names such as

Yose bar Chananya, but if they are distinguished enough, the "son

of.." part isn't needed: they would be just "rabbi Yose", i.e. "THE

rabbi Yose", rabbi Meir, etc. Later on, the amount of last names

grows, and yet later, we find more than one first name for one

individual - which may or not be a Christian/Islamic influence on

Jewish practice.

I hope I have now removed the suspicion that I think Jews didn't have

first names; I think actually they usually had *only* first names, and

"son of..." or "daughter of..." (+father's name), if needed.

 

BTW "Jewish names" is a very interesting subject in itself; take for

example (I may mention something that's no news to you, but maybe it

could be interesting to mention) a Yiddish Ashkenazi practice of

giving a person two first names, or rather one double first name, with

the same meaning, but one in Hebrew and one in Yiddish. For example,

Tsvi Hirsch, Dov Bär, Seev Wolf (+last name), and others.

 

Best regards,

Herman,

R.dam Netherlands

 

 

 

2006/4/4, YODAN <yodanco at yodanco.com>:

> Hello Herman,

> 

> I am not sure that I understand the statement "Unlike Christians nowadays,

> Jews in

> 

> Antiquity didn't have "official" names, as far as I think is known at

> 

> least,."

> 

> Since the name being discussed was a first name, are you saying Jews
didn't

> have first names?  Or didn't have them even as "late" in history as the

> beginning of the Common Era?  How can that be?  What about all the
Biblical

> names that preceded the period you are discussing by hundreds of years?

> 

> Perhaps I misunderstood what you said?

> 

>  ********************************

> 

> Rivka

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org

> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Herman Meester

> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 12:41 PM

> To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org

> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Yahoshua/Yehosua

> 

> Dear Baruj,

> 

> There is no such basis; Jesus' original name was neither Yehoshua or

> Yahoshua, it was just Yeshu. Unlike Christians nowadays, Jews in

> Antiquity didn't have "official" names, as far as I think is known at

> least, so even if we claim that the "original version" of "Yeshu" had

> been "Yehoshua", this would have been irrelevant to the Galilean

> family he was born in.

> By the way, both /h/ and /`/ (`ayin) were likely not to have been

> pronounced in Galilee anymore, as the sources suggest, and the name

> Yehoshua (as a biblical name) was probably pronounced, if people would

> discuss a "biblical" subject, simply "Yeshu" too.

> 

> Writing this, I suddenly worry I misinterpret your question; maybe

> you'd mean to ask if the name that "Yeshu" ultimately derives of would

> have been pronounced "Yahoshua" instead of "Yehoshua"?

> In the latter case, that is likely, because instead of shwa, the

> biblical authors likely did pronounce /a/ in this case. However, then

> they would have pronounced Yahoshu` (or Yahushu`) and not Yahoshua;

> for the `ayin was not replaced with /a/ yet for Scripture recitation

> (as the Masoretes resolved their inability to pronounce the

> gutturals).

> 

> best regards,

> Herman Meester,

> Rotterdam, Netherlands

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

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