[b-hebrew] accent mark question Ps 45:7 and Dagesh in Isaiah 8:11

Yitzhak Sapir yitzhaksapir at gmail.com
Mon Oct 31 15:05:49 EST 2005


On 10/31/05, Kelton Graham wrote:
> My question is two fold in Psalm 45:7 K:S:`A:KA
> E:LOHIYM  the tipha under the alef of ' E:LOHIYM does
> that represent a pause?
>
> So is it, "your throne, O God is forever and ever?"
>
> "Or can one get away with Your throne is God, forever and
> ever?"

If the Massoretes got away with it, what prevents you from
getting away with it?

In the book of Psalms a different system of division is at work.
The cantillation mark you are looking at is a D:xi (dehi) and it is
a Mishneh (ie, 3rd level of division, after a Qeisar and a Melekh).
A +ipxah is a Melekh and is found under the stressed syllable of
books other than Psalms, Job, and Proverbs, while a D:xi is found
always before the start of the word in the Psalms/Job/Proverbs
system regardless of stress.  A cantillation mark called a +irxFh
(tirha) is shaped exactly the same way but is a conjunctive and
found under the stressed syllable.  Anyway, the munah is still
conjunctive and the etnahta is still the greatest pause so this
verse is quite simple:  The munach connects "(wlm" to "w(d" and
"ks)k" to ")lhym", and the dehi separates the ")lhm" from the
portion following it, until the etnahta.

[ Your throne God ] [ forever ]

Based on the context where God speaks his blessing to his
chosen king, such as in the next verse where "thus has God
anointed you."  So it probably means:

Your throne is God, eternal.

That is: You are eternally supported by God.

I note JPS translates: Thy throne given of God is for
ever and ever, so they add "given of" in the translation
so that the implication is clearer.

> Second question is YISS:R"NIY in Isaiah 8:11, why is
> there a dagesh in the samech?

Seems to me because it is a Piel.

> And if this thing is imperfect why isn't there a dagesh in
> the yod?

Seems to me the Massoretic signs imply it is not a Vav
conversive.  It is a vav conjunctive only.  So it says "God
said such to me  with a strong hand and repeatedly
admonishes/pains me not to go the way of this people,
saying."

Here I read the imperfect as an ongoing repeated action.

According to the Hebrew Univ Bible/Isaiah:
Isaiah A has "wyhy kxzqt yd ysyrnw"
Miqraot Gdolot, Kennicott 150, and multiple manuscripts
in Kennicott/de Rossi/Ginsburg have "bxzqt"
Codex Karlsruhe 3 ("Reuchlinianus"), dated 1105, has
"wiysir"yniy" which appears to match Aquilas and
Theodotion from my limited understanding of the Greek
apparatus.  Kennicott 30 has just "ysrny" before
correction.

I don't know Greek so I won't try to analyze the LXX
comments beyond this but they seem apparently to point
to an etymology of "swr."

Yitzhak Sapir



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