[b-hebrew] Ayin and Ghayin

Read, James C K0434995 at kingston.ac.uk
Thu Oct 6 22:11:26 EDT 2005

Yes Stephen, thank you for that. I have and am repenting for my wicked 
British ways. Do you have any practical advice to offer me? Which could 
aid me in becoming more, you know? More like you? And, you know? less like 

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen [mailto:stephen4yeshua at yahoo.com]
Sent: Fri 10/7/2005 3:00 AM
To: Read, James C
Subject:  Ayin and Ghayin
have you repented yet?
Yahweh is crying out against you, to repent from your wicked british ways.
you are not upity to Him, you are downity.
humble thyself oh wicked child of the devil..
and repent...and be His child... please, before it is to late...
stephen Yahweh's humble messenger

"Read, James C" <K0434995 at kingston.ac.uk> wrote:

Come on George! Don't you think that's a bit harsh? This is a place for 
producing linguistic evidence against the theories we don't support but 
not a place for making personal attacks against people. 

Anyway, I think you may have misrepresented Karl here. He is not trying 
to impress with his ability to read unpointed hebrew. No-one can really 
say they know hebrew if they are not reading unpointed text. I think Karl 
is rather highlighting that the act of reading the hebrew unpointed lends 
to a view that sin/shin originally represented one phoneme. Nothing more 
and nothing less.

Personally, Iagree that reading unpointed text has large benfits. Because 
the reader is forced to use his first instincts and make better use of the 
context. I believe this is a fundamental step which makes the difference 
between making hebrew a part of you and not just an academic exercise 
(Yitzhak. Did you notice the improved spelling?).

For this reason, and others, my translation machine does not use the 
pointed hebrew text, which could cause errors in the statistical calculations 
it makes.

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of George F Somsel
Sent: Fri 10/7/2005 2:15 AM
To: kwrandolph at email.com
Cc: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Ayin and Ghayin

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:41:29 -0500 "Karl Randolph" 
> Yitzhak:
> You're just like Vadim, impossible!



If anyone is like Vadim, it is YOU.


> When I read documents like the Gezar Calendar and the 
> Siloam Inscription, I find writing entirely consistent with 
> examples found in pre-Exile Tanakh. Give me a clear 
> enough image and I have no trouble reading the text. 
> Have you ever read Tanakh from cover to cover?
> What does this tradition have to do with an analysis of the 
> unpointed Hebrew text? Huh??
> Have you ever *read* the unpointed text cover to cover?


I doubt seriously that you have read the TANAK from cover to cover. You
had to admit that you didn't know what to do with a passage from Job, and
there have been other other instances in which you seemed very much at a
loss. If I were you I would drop this bit about reading the Hebrew text
from cover to cover (and especially the point about reading the unpointed
text) since I find it totally unimpressive though I know you are
attempting to impress everyone with your prowess at Hebrew. It only
makes you a laughing-stock.

> In closing, I have come to the conclusion that you don't 
> know Biblical Hebrew. Oh, you may have taken a class or 
> two in it, learning the paradigms presented in grammar 
> textbooks, but that is a far cry from reading the text cover 
> to cover. You have not analyzed even a simple, small 
> book like Ruth using an unpointed text, let alone the 
> whole Tanakh. All you do is parrot the beliefs of others. If 
> you were handed a document in archaic Hebrew script, 
> could you read it? I can. Apparently you love to argue just 
> to argue, well go on without me.
> Karl W. Randolph.


You would do well to take "a class or two" learning Hebrew. Don't try to
impress me with your supposed prowess at reading the unpointed text from
cover to cover. You're a phoney.


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