[b-hebrew] Ayin and Ghayin

Read, James C K0434995 at kingston.ac.uk
Thu Oct 6 21:46:55 EDT 2005

Hello Stephen,

how are you today?

You'll be glad to know that I have felt regrets for being born British. 
This is why I moved away from Britain and visited other cultures and 
languages in an attempt to put off my Britishness and become without 
nationality. It was a very difficult task and I haven't fully succeeded 
yet and rather than becoming a person without nationality I've rather 
become a person with a confused nationality and am often witnessed 
making proud statements such as 'In Italy we ...' or 'In Spain...' as 
if we do it better over there. This usually provokes bewildered looks 
from my fellow brits who look at me as if to say 'But you're British 
I'm truly sorry for all that my ancestors have done in the way of raping 
and plundering other countries and I hope that they will not repeat this 
error. I also hope that we will begin to make foreign language study a 
higher priority as we are highly renowned for our linguistic ignorance 
in other european countries.
You're right that I should read the Massorah myself before formulating 
an opinion. I'll put it on my to do list, which currently has approximately
1,000,000 other things before it but hey with everlasting life(god willing)
ahead I'm sure I'll find the time.
Please, feel free to continue to point out to me my wickedness and badness 
and I will make a concerted effort to make the necessary changes to gain 
your approval. Please appreciate, that being a pagan Briton that has suffered 
a lifetime of being brainwashed into believing that I am part of a master race
this may take some time and patience but with your perseverance and constant
reminders of my British wickedness we will no doubt make some sort of progress 
in the near future. I've thought of a slogan for our campaign:

'Down with the Queen and the fascist regime!!!'

I figured that if we attach it to a funky beat and do a massive spam wave to 
every email address of potential britons we may make some headway and hey! Who 
knows? Maybe one day some of the British may be able to become humble servants 
of Yahweh like yourself. 
I know! The British are only fit for destruction but you never know. The ninivites 
repented and Yah forgave them and so maybe there is some hope in the mission of
your anti-britain form of 'Christiany'

'Those who do fine works come to the light, in order that their works may be 
made manifest.'

My interpretation of these words are 'If you are doing something in secret, it 
is usually because you are ashamed of it and therefore deep down inside you 
know that it is wrong'.

Once again, thank you for the enlightening experience you have given me. Please 
continue to send you proselytic emails. They are most endearing. Especially the 
ones where you tell me how wicked all the British are and how we are all going to 
burn in the lake of fire. It's such warm and endearing words as these that 
make your religious schism seem so inviting. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen [mailto:stephen4yeshua at yahoo.com]
Sent: Fri 10/7/2005 2:01 AM
To: Read, James C
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Ayin and Ghayin
the massorah is so deep, one must examine it oneself. the fact that you rely on what others say, ought to show you that you eat the wrong bread.
Yahshua said, "eat My bread"..
I wonder to ask you, have you repented yet from your wicked british mentality, and your overall wickedness?
eating the wrong bread, is idol worship. this is what makes you so evil..
I hope you can see your evil ness. I really do.
please repent...
stephen  the humble  messenger for Yahweh

"Read, James C" <K0434995 at kingston.ac.uk> wrote:
Erm, I haven't personally read the massorah but from all those that 
have read it or portions of it I gather that the hebrew it contains 
is more than blatantly evidently much more modern in style and word 

On the matter of the number of phonemes, while I haven't studied the 
matter deep enough to formulate an opinion I do think the owness of 
proof is rather on us to prove Karl wrong in this matter than vice 
versa. The reason for this is clear. The unpointed text uses 22 
characters. In general, when languages invent a system of recording 
its sounds they try to use one character per sound. English is a great 
exception to this rule but to be frank, the English writing system is 
the bastardised product of countless conquests against our little 
fertile (and very wet) island. And so examples of English betrayal of 
this pattern would be completely irrelevant.
So, for this reason, unless we are to present convincing internal 
evidence to Karl that such was not the case, he is more than justified 
in believing that the consonants used in the hebrew text of the torah 
represent the whole range of the consonants that its author/s were 
capable of pronouncing.

There again we would do well to ask ourselves a few questions:

Where did moses learn to write hebrew?
In egypt he would have used hyroglyphs (please feel free to correct the spelling)
Did Abraham, Isaac & Jacob write? Did they learn to write from their 
Chaldean routes? Was the hebrew that Abraham spoke different to the 
hebrew that Moses spoke? Archaic yhwh seems to suggest that this was so.
Did moses learn to write hebrew in Egypt as part of his royal education?
Or did he learn it from his time with Jethro and the sheep?
Was the ability to write a sign of education? Or could all hebrews write?
Did the hebrews he left Egypt with help him to learn how to write as he had always 
read and written Egyptian prior?

On the matter of sin/shin I think Karl has good reason to believe these represented 
one sound. Take for example the English 'u' (I know, I am now officially a 
hypocrite).Not so long ago Peter said that English 'u' is like a russion 'a'.
Well, not for me it isn't! For me there is no difference between the 
'u' of run and the 'u' of bull. For Peter, they are two different phonemes 
and the 'u' of Peter's run is similar to my 'a' of ran. Estuary English goes 
the whole hog and I cannot distinguish the difference between my 'ran' 
and their 'run' and therefore have to rely on context to understand if they 
are referring to the past or the present. While this is an extreme example 
it does show how with time and dialectal differences, how one character can 
come to represent two phonemes when at one time in the history of the language 
it only represented one sound.

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