[b-hebrew] The mystery of vav-consecutive

Vadim Cherny vadimcherny at mail.ru
Tue May 24 07:53:11 EDT 2005


This is the whole point. No one can give an unambiguous example. They just prefer to treat some instances of waw-consequtive as not tense reversal, sacrificing clear grammar for preferable interpretation.

Vadim Cherny


> > > Can anyone give me 5 examples from the Pentateuch where the
> vav-consecutive
> > > is clearly NOT a tense reversal?
> >
> From: "Dave Washburn" <dwashbur at nyx.net> Sunday, May 22, 2005 7:55 PM
> > Reversal of what?  You're assuming an awful lot: that we know the tense of
> the
> > other forms, that the intention of the waw-forms was to "reverse" one of
> the
> > other forms, that the tenses resulting from a particular structure are
> > deliberate and not incidental to some other factor in the verb form -
> > briefly, taking this approach ends up in massive circular reasoning and
> gets
> > nowhere.
> 
> Dave,
> I mean reversal from imperfect to perfect and vice versa. I don't see how I
> am assuming all these things. As a boy in Hebrew school, I learned that the
> vav-consecutive reversed tense, but I have no vested interest either way. I
> just want to find out the truth from the usage in the Bible. And I won't be
> convinced unless I see it in the Bible.
> 
> If I look at the Bible starting from Gen 1:1 and read far enough to cover 10
> vav-consecutives, that will take me to verse 7 and includes 11
> vav-consecutive-imperfects . In these verses, 11 out of 11 vav-consecutives
> reverse the imperfect to perfect,
> while none of the non-vav-consecutives reverse.
> 
> However, in Gen 1:6, the only thing that makes ?????? not vav-consecutive is
> the vowels.
> 
> So that is why I ask, can anyone give me 5 counter examples from the
> Pentateuch, where the vav-consecutive does not reverse the imperfect to
> perfect?
> 
> Below I have copied Gen. 1:1-7 with Darby translation.
> * indicates a vav-consecutive imperfect verb.  11 out of 11 are reversed to
> translate as past
> ** is a non-vav-consecutive imperfect verb. 3 out of  3 translated as
> present or future
> *** is a non-vav consecutive perfect verb. 3 out of 3 translated as past
> (Hebrew is copied from www.crosswire.org. Please let me know if this doesn't
> go thru to anyone.)
> 
> Gen 1:1  ??????????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??????????? ????? ?????????
> In the beginning God ***created the heavens and the earth.
> 
> Gen 1:2  ????????? ??????? ????? ??????? ????????? ?????????? ?????? ???????
> ???????? ????????? ?????????? ??????????
> And the earth ***was waste and empty, and darkness was on the face of the
> deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
> 
> Gen 1:3 ????????? ???????? ????? ???? ???????????????
> And God *said, Let there **be light. And there *was light.
> 
> Gen 1:4 ???????? ???????? ?????????? ????????? ??????????? ???????? ?????
> ?????? ?????? ???????????
> And God *saw the light that it was good; and God *divided  between the light
> and the darkness.
> 
> Gen 1:5 ?????????? ???????? ? ?????? ???? ??????????? ????? ???????
> ?????????????? ?????????????? ???? ???????
> And God *called  the light Day, and the darkness he ***called Night. And
> there *was  evening, and there *was  morning--the first day.
> 
> Gen 1:6 ????????? ???????? ????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?????? ?????????
> ????? ????? ?????????
> And God *said, Let there **be  an expanse in the midst of the waters, and
> let it **be  a division between waters and waters.
> 
> Gen 1:7 ????????? ???????? ????????????? ??????????? ????? ???????? ??????
> ???????? ????????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ????? ????????? ??????????????
> And God *made the expanse, and *divided between the waters that are under
> the expanse and the waters that are above the expanse; and it *was so.
> 
> thanks,
> -Steve Miller
> Detroit
> 
> 
> 
> 



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