[b-hebrew] The mystery of vav-consecutive

Steve Miller smille10 at sbcglobal.net
Thu Jun 2 21:56:10 EDT 2005


Uri,
I copied the unicode from crosswire.com. My system is windows ME, only 2 years newer than yours, but less reliable. Did you try Peter Kirk's post today about downloading the unicode fonts. Maybe on 98 you have to download the fonts. I did not have to download anything, but I do keep current with the windows updates.
-Steve
Detroit
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Uri Hurwitz 
  To: Steve Miller 
  Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 11:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] The mystery of vav-consecutive


   Hi Steve,

   What kind of font do you use for the Hebrew? In my museum piece computer, windows 98, it appears as gibberish. Yet I get modern Israeli press etc perfectly clearly.

   Best,                   Uri

    Long Island, NY

  Steve Miller <smille10 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
    > On Sunday 22 May 2005 16:15, Steve Miller wrote:
    > > Can anyone give me 5 examples from the Pentateuch where the
    vav-consecutive
    > > is clearly NOT a tense reversal?
    >
    From: "Dave Washburn" Sunday, May 22, 2005 7:55 PM
    > Reversal of what? You're assuming an awful lot: that we know the tense of
    the
    > other forms, that the intention of the waw-forms was to "reverse" one of
    the
    > other forms, that the tenses resulting from a particular structure are
    > deliberate and not incidental to some other factor in the verb form -
    > briefly, taking this approach ends up in massive circular reasoning and
    gets
    > nowhere.

    Dave,
    I mean reversal from imperfect to perfect and vice versa. I don't see how I
    am assuming all these things. As a boy in Hebrew school, I learned that the
    vav-consecutive reversed tense, but I have no vested interest either way. I
    just want to find out the truth from the usage in the Bible. And I won't be
    convinced unless I see it in the Bible.

    If I look at the Bible starting from Gen 1:1 and read far enough to cover 10
    vav-consecutives, that will take me to verse 7 and includes 11
    vav-consecutive-imperfects . In these verses, 11 out of 11 vav-consecutives
    reverse the imperfect to perfect,
    while none of the non-vav-consecutives reverse.

    However, in Gen 1:6, the only thing that makes וִיהִי not vav-consecutive is
    the vowels.

    So that is why I ask, can anyone give me 5 counter examples from the
    Pentateuch, where the vav-consecutive does not reverse the imperfect to
    perfect?

    Below I have copied Gen. 1:1-7 with Darby translation.
    * indicates a vav-consecutive imperfect verb. 11 out of 11 are reversed to
    translate as past
    ** is a non-vav-consecutive imperfect verb. 3 out of 3 translated as
    present or future
    *** is a non-vav consecutive perfect verb. 3 out of 3 translated as past
    (Hebrew is copied from www.crosswire.org. Please let me know if this doesn't
    go thru to anyone.)

    Gen 1:1 בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָֽרֶץ׃
    In the beginning God ***created the heavens and the earth.

    Gen 1:2 וְהָאָרֶץ הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ וְחֹשֶׁךְ ×¢Ö·×œÖ¾×¤Ö¼Ö°× Öµ×™ תְהֹום וְרוּחַ
    אֱלֹהִים מְרַחֶפֶת ×¢Ö·×œÖ¾×¤Ö¼Ö°× Öµ×™ הַמָּֽיִם׃
    And the earth ***was waste and empty, and darkness was on the face of the
    deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

    Gen 1:3 וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים יְהִי אֹור וַֽיְהִי־אֹֽור׃
    And God *said, Let there **be light. And there *was light.

    Gen 1:4 וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת־הָאֹור כִּי־טֹוב וַיַּבְדֵּל אֱלֹהִים בֵּין
    הָאֹור וּבֵין הַחֹֽשֶׁךְ׃
    And God *saw the light that it was good; and God *divided between the light
    and the darkness.

    Gen 1:5 וַיִּקְרָא אֱלֹהִים ׀ לָאֹור יֹום וְלַחֹשֶׁךְ קָרָא לָיְלָה
    וַֽיְהִי־עֶרֶב וַֽיְהִי־בֹקֶר יֹום אֶחָֽד׃
    And God *called the light Day, and the darkness he ***called Night. And
    there *was evening, and there *was morning--the first day.

    Gen 1:6 וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים יְהִי רָקִיעַ בְּתֹוךְ הַמָּיִם וִיהִי מַבְדִּיל
    בֵּין מַיִם לָמָֽיִם׃
    And God *said, Let there **be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and
    let it **be a division between waters and waters.

    Gen 1:7 וַיַּעַשׂ אֱלֹהִים אֶת־הָרָקִיעַ וַיַּבְדֵּל בֵּין הַמַּיִם אֲשֶׁר
    מִתַּחַת לָרָקִיעַ וּבֵין הַמַּיִם אֲשֶׁר מֵעַל לָרָקִיעַ וַֽיְהִי־כֵֽן׃
    And God *made the expanse, and *divided between the waters that are under
    the expanse and the waters that are above the expanse; and it *was so.

    thanks,
    -Steve Miller
    Detroit

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