[b-hebrew] Aramaic - Abba

Peter Kirk peterkirk at qaya.org
Sat Jul 23 08:37:51 EDT 2005

On 23/07/2005 03:42, Harold R. Holmyard III wrote:

> ...
>HH: Peter, you weren't alive in the first 
>century, and there may have been dialectical 
>variations. ...

True, such as that some people when speaking Aramaic may have used the 
Hebrew word for God. But it is still the Hebrew word, not the Aramaic 
word, although I accept that the last word in the quotation is Aramaic.

>... Practically every 
>source I've checked believes that the non-Greek 
>words in Mark 15:34 are Aramaic, and that 
>includes people with NT doctorates, Associated 
>Press, CBS, and the Companion Bible. ...

Well, there is the problem! People with NT doctorates don't tend to know 
more than basic Hebrew and Aramaic, and so tend to trust what they hear 
from others. But who are the others they are relying on? As for the 
journalists, you must be joking to cite them as authorities. But the 
real point here is that you are never going to convince me on any 
argument by citing modern authorities, rather than giving actual evidence.

>... The last two 
>words are clearly Aramaic, ...

The last word is. LAMA looks to me like a perfectly good Hebrew word for 
"why", although I agree that it can also be Aramaic. In fact LAMA is the 
very Hebrew word used in the original of Psalm 22:2 (v.1 in English), 
although to confuse matters the Hebrew is ELI not ELOHI.

>... I'm looking at Frederick 
>Greenspahn's An Introduction to Aramaic, at 
>chapter 3 (p. 8), and he is confident that the 
>non-Greek statements in both Matthew 27:46 and 
>Mark 15:34 are Aramaic (although he transcribed 
>Mark 15:34 incorrectly, actually spelling "why" 
>in a more Hebrew way).

Well, I accept that Greenspahn knows his Aramaic. But does he actually 
explain how ELWI can be Aramaic? I suppose the Aramaic form could be 
ELAY and this just might have been pronounced something like ELOY. But 
this is the kind of argument I was expecting from you, rather than 
citing endless authorities who simply copy from one another. And is the 
long A in ELAY became omega, why are none of the other long A's in this 
verse transcribed as omega?

Peter Kirk
peter at qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk at qaya.org (work)

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