[b-hebrew] Aramaic - Abba

Read, James C K0434995 at kingston.ac.uk
Fri Jul 22 16:51:40 EDT 2005

Yeah! Thanx!

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Washburn [mailto:dwashbur at nyx.net]
Sent: Fri 7/22/2005 8:58 PM
To: Read, James C
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Aramaic - Abba
This came direct to me; did you intend it to go to the list?

On Friday 22 July 2005 12:50, you wrote:
> Yeah, I've often wondered how much he spoke in greek and how
> much he spoke in aramian/hebrew. As greek was the language for
> international relations and he usually spoke to people of his own
> nation I don't see how this would be necessary. Also, I think that
> if he wanted to be taken seriously by his fellow Judans, speaking
> Greek would not have been a good strategy.
> Also, I remember reading somewhere that Origen? (I think) claimed
> that Matthew originally wrote his gospel in Hebrew and that it was
> still extant in his day in some library somewhere (sorry I can't
> be more specific).
> Plus, I remeber reading online somewhere, a few days ago, that back
> translation of Ye$ua's words makes them more rythmical and easy to
> remember (like the psalms).
> All this seems to point towards him speaking more in Hebrew/Aramaic.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Dave Washburn
> Sent: Fri 7/22/2005 7:32 PM
> To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Aramaic - Abba
> On Friday 22 July 2005 10:27, Peter Kirk wrote:
> > On 22/07/2005 17:10, Yigal Levin wrote:
> > >Okay, then, assuming that Mark records the tradition faithfully, the
> > >question is whether Jesus would have been using Aramaic or Hebrew, and
> > >whether the form ABBA at that time would have been more formal or less.
> > > Or, on the other hand, what Mark intended by putting the word Abba in
> > > Jesus' mouth. I really don't think that we have enough information to
> > > go on.
> >
> > Well, there are several apparently Aramaic words recorded in
> > transliteration in Mark's gospel, e.g. TALIQA in 5:41 and SABACQANI in
> > 15:34 (Q = theta, C = chi), and an apparently Hebrew one, ELWI = Elohi
> > in 15:34 (W = omega). Translations into Greek are given for all of them,
> > just as for "Abba". One interpretation is that Jesus was always speaking
> > Aramaic. Another is that Jesus was normally speaking Hebrew which was
> > translated into Greek, and the few Aramaic words preserved are preserved
> > to show their distinctively Aramaic nature.
> Another possibility is that he spoke Greek a fair bit of the time, since it
> was the trade language of the empire.  We have several recorded examples of
> him talking with Romans, at least one Phoenician, and so forth, so it seems
> very possible that he spoke Greek at least in his public speeches etc. and
> that the Aramaic words and phrases are rendered into Greek because he
> didn't use Aramaic all that much, relatively speaking.

Dave Washburn
"Well, if I'd wanted a safe life, I guess I wouldn't have 
married a man who studies rocks." - Betty Armstrong (Fay Masterson)

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