[b-hebrew] Evil & God

Peter Kirk peterkirk at qaya.org
Thu Aug 11 08:18:04 EDT 2005

On 11/08/2005 01:30, Pawel wrote:

>Shoshanna Walker wrote:
>>>Just so you know - Judaism does not teach that Satan "fell", that is
>>>a Christian idea.
>>Well, isn't it rather a judeo-christian idea?
>>No, it is a Christian idea
>Very laconic :-). I can only reply similarly: no, it isn't.
>Now let me make my point clear.
>Unlike judaism which is not dogmatic and admits
>some variety of views on the same issue, christianity
>has a very strict and inflexible doctrine which
>is obliging for every believer. ...

This is simply not true. Well, it may be true (although I think 
exaggerated) within certain Christian groups or denominations, including 
the largest one in Poland (but then there are probably analogous Jewish 
groups of which it is true). But it is not at all true of the Christian 
faith taken as a whole. There are of course a few basics which are 
considered fundamental to Christian identity, but the same is also true 
of Judaism. However, to say that anything in Christianity as a whole is 
"very strict and inflexible" is a gross caricature.

>... All views which
>are not contained in the doctrine and do not oppose
>it are acceptable - there is a principle: "in dubio
>libertas". Now, when you say that an idea 'is Christian'
>you suggest that it is part of the official Christian
>doctrine. In case of "the fall of Satan" - it is 
>simply not true. ...

I don't think the point was that this doctrine is official Christian 
doctrine (indeed I am not sure if there is any such thing - certainly 
none accepted since the Council of Chalcedon in 451 which is I think the 
last generally recognised Ecumenical Council), nor that it is the 
official doctrine of any branch of Christianity. The point is rather 
that this teaching originated among Christians and is widely believed by 
Christians. The latter is true, although it is not official doctrine. As 
for the origin of the teaching, I don't know.

Peter Kirk
peter at qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk at qaya.org (work)

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