[b-hebrew] YHWH & Elohim - A Bit More

Vadim Cherny VadimCherny at mail.ru
Sun Aug 7 12:45:42 EDT 2005


Jack's reasoning makes sense for me. But, then, I assume that Yah/ Yahu/
Yaho is just a variant spelling of YHWH, incorporating the same Iao base of
1-2-3 pronoun suffixes.

Vadim Cherny

>
> I was actually thinking of personal names rather than place
> names.  Sorry I was not clear. My note was just an initial
> observation and a thought, it is not in opposition to much
> of anything yet.
>
> Here are my initial thoughts in regards to your email.
>
> 1) What is the point of shortening the full formal personal
> name to begin with?  The ancient Israelites did not seem
> particularly adverse to having long formal personal names.
> Obviously shortened nick-names were probably quite common
> but those only make sense relative to the full formal name.
> I would expect in the context of the OT, the authors would
> have naturally favored the more formal names over nick-
> names.  Even if some of these names are nick-names surely
> there should be at least some theophoric names that were
> not shortened?  There should be a few personal theophoric
> name that include YHWH or Elohim if shortening were the
> process.
>
> 2) If one wished to shorten a theophroic name, I do not see
> any particular motive to shorten the divine portion of a
> theophoric name.  It seems to me that the only point of
> having a theophoric name is to include God?s name.
> Shortening the divine element of a person?s theophoric name
> seems to defeat the entire purpose of having a theophoric
> name. Why not shorten the non-divine elements?
>
> 3) If the names were shortened, they were not shortened by
> much, if at all in many cases.  For example Yahu-natan(Yahu
> gave)is no shorter than Yahweh-natan when spoken (four
> syllables each)and only one letter shorter when written.
> Yesha ? Yah (Yah saved)is but one syllable shorter than
> Yesha ? Yahweh.  Shama-El is significantly shorter than
> Shama-Eloah or Shama-Elohim.
>
>
>
> > From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk at qaya.org>
> > Date: 2005/08/06 Sat PM 06:43:33 EDT
> > To: tladatsi at charter.net
> > CC: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH & Elohim
> >
> > On 06/08/2005 23:20, tladatsi at charter.net wrote:
> >
> > >...
> > >Even more interesting, YHWH and Elohim never occur in
> > >theophoric names, at least I found none. ...
> > >
> >
> > There is Gibeath-haElohim or Gibeah of God in 1 Samuel
> 10:5.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > >The logic of lengthening a short name to a longer name
> is
> > >pretty obvious.  It is both visually more impressive and
> > >sounds better. ...
> > >
> >
> > I see your point. But isn't there an even more obvious
> logic to
> > shortening a long name, especially when it is
> incorporated within a
> > compound name? In that case YHWH and Eloah/Elohim would
> have been the
> > original full forms, and YH/YHW and El abbreviated
> versions used largely
> > in names and (perhaps where it fits the "metre" better)
> in poetry.
> >
> > So why is your suggestion better than my tentative one?
> >
> > -- 
> > Peter Kirk
> > peter at qaya.org (personal)
> > peterkirk at qaya.org (work)
> > http://www.qaya.org/
> >
>
> Jack Tladatsi
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
> This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
> Security System.
>
>
> This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
> Security System.
>




More information about the b-hebrew mailing list