[b-hebrew] Is.45:7 God created evil?

Read, James C K0434995 at kingston.ac.uk
Fri Aug 5 17:12:48 EDT 2005


Shoshanna wrote:
G-d is the original source of everything
ENDQUOTE

Exactly! But his creating me does not make him responsible for my sins.
If I sin it is because I have decided in my heart to do thus. If Satan 
abandons his original position in order to create a rebellion it is 
because he has decided in his heart to do just so.
Ezekiel 28:11-19 describes Satan with glorious beginnings and then his 
fall into sin and his ultimate demise of eternal destruction.

Yah is the ultimate source as you rightly say. But his word testifies 
that Satan is a rebel and was not created for the purpose of testing 
mankind. All men sin and are therefore deserving of death and so there 
is little point in continually tempting us if we have already been 
proven unrighteous.

Also nothing in the Tanakh teaches that Yah's messengers die once they 
have borne their message.
Elijah saw heaven opened up with legions of angels residing in heaven.
They were not bearing messages or waiting to die because their message 
had already been borne.
Yah's testimony is that he desired for us to live eternally in peace 
in the garden of Eden and not for us to rebel as we have done.


-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Shoshanna Walker
Sent: Fri 8/5/2005 9:54 PM
To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Is.45:7 God created evil?
 
It's just what I learned from various divrei Torah during my life, I 
don't know the sources, but I will try to find out.

G-d is the original source of everything

Shoshanna




This is an interesting observation. And if you are correct,this would
mean that Yah is the original source of such temptations.

What biblical/traditional evidences lead you to such a firm conclusion?


-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Shoshanna Walker
Sent: Fri 8/5/2005 6:36 PM
To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Cc: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Is.45:7 God created evil?

Satan is an angel created by G-d, its purpose is to tempt mankind to
do evil, ie; disobey G-d

Shoshanna





When I say 'fallen' I do not mean 'no longer resident in heaven', I mean
'rebelled from his original purpose'.

The original serpent, the one called devil and satan, was never purposed
by Yah and his purpose for Adam and Eve was for them to be obedient and
to live eternally and fill the earth with their offspring.
Man's fall came about by HaSatan's will *not* by Yah's, according to Genesis.

Trasition would have it that Job was authored by Moshe just as was the Torah
and I have no reason to doubt it. It carries all the hallmarks of an ancient
piece and there is no evidence that such hallmarks are intelligent tricks of
a later author.
It seems that there is a conspiracy theory behind the authorship of every book
in the bible.
The problem is that once all the useful things have been studied in order to
gain a Phd one has to do an 'original' piece of work and so there is
no surprise
that great minds have applied themselves to creating and supporting
all kinds of
conspiracy theories.

I wonder in 2,000 years if there will be conspiracy theories about
the true author
of the Harry Potter books???

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Shoshanna Walker
Sent: Fri 8/5/2005 5:49 PM
To: b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Is.45:7 God created evil?

HaSatan is an angel

Angels have no free choice, they exist to serve G-d, when an angel's
job is done, it ceases to exist

Shoshanna




ummm--- Job does no such thing.  In fact, haSatan has access to God- is
questioned by God and answers most respectably, and is given orders by
God which he is to carry out.  He is no "fallen angel"- he is in the
council of God.  to eisegete angelology into Job is a tremendous
exegetical mistake.

>Furthermore, your current understanding of 2Sam 24 does not make
>sense if we are to
>understand it as a chain of events.
>
>1) Yah gets angry
>2) He gets David to commit a sin
>
>The following questions arise:
>1) Why did Yah get angry?
>
>

David ticked him off- so he wanted to get even.

>2) Surely if we are to understand that he got angry before the sin
>then there must have been another
>reason for his anger. What was that reason?
>
>

david's whole manner of being perhaps?  his greed, lust, murderousness,
name it.

>3) If so, did Yah get David to sin just because he was already angry
>about something else?
>4) Does this line of thinking have any logic what-so-ever?
>
>

what are you looking for logic for?  the narrative is as little
concerned with logic as (insert name of any politician here) is.

Jim


--
D. Jim West

Biblical Studies Resources -
<<http://web.infoave.net/~jwest>http://web.infoave.net/~jwest><http:// 
web.infoave.net/~jwest>http://web.infoave.net/~jwest
Biblical Theology Weblog -
<<http://biblical-studies.blogspot.com>http://biblical-studies.blogspo 
t.com><http://biblical-studies.blogspot>http://biblical-studies.blogsp 
ot
.com

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