[b-hebrew] Exodus, Dating of (Josephus vs. Manetho)

david.kimbrough at charter.net david.kimbrough at charter.net
Fri May 28 15:57:23 EDT 2004

Yes, I have read a similar proposal, although based on an entirely different argument. This author, I don't have the book in front of me, argued that two exodus event are actually recorded in Exodus.

The first is 12:35-39 where the Israelites *borrow* {wY$(lW,  obviously with great irony} gold, silver, and anything else they want from the Egyptians, who happily *give* {wynClW, once more with irony} these valubles away.  While the Isrealites *spoil* the Egyptians, the Egyptians look happily on, as if under some sort of spell.

The second is the more famous one in 13:17 and after where they Isrealites flee Egypt and are pursued by the King's chariots.

That is what I read.

35 And the people of Israel did as Moses had instructed and asked the Egyptians for clothing and articles of silver and gold. 36 The Lord caused the Egyptians to look favorably on the Israelites, and they gave the Israelites whatever they asked for. So, like a victorious army, they plundered the Egyptians!
37 That night the people of Israel left Rameses and started for Succoth. There were about 600,000 men, plus all the women and children. And they were all traveling on foot. 38 Many people who were not Israelites went with them, along with the many flocks and herds. 39 Whenever they stopped to eat, they baked bread from the yeastless dough they had brought from Egypt. It was made without yeast because the people were rushed out of Egypt and had no time to wait for bread to rise.
> From: "Walter R. Mattfeld" <mattfeld12 at charter.net>
> Date: 2004/05/28 Fri PM 06:07:13 GMT
> To: <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Exodus, Dating of (Josephus vs. Manetho)
> I have been doing some research on the Exodus for over 30 years, and am well
> aware of _all_ the conflicting proposals, Conservative and Liberal. The
> problem ? No period has the archaeological support, as noted by Professors
> William G. Dever, Israel Finkelstein, Burton MacDonald, etc.
> Putting aside for the moment, _the lack of archaeological evidence_, I have
> of late (the past 24 hours) been "playing with, what is for me, "a new
> brain-child" or "idea." That the biblical account is a fusion of two events
> preserved in the writings of the 1st century CE (AD) Jewish Historian
> Falvius Josephus.
> As most on this list are aware (that is to say, those who have studied the
> Exodus and its dating problems), Josephus argued that the Exodus was
> recalling the mid 16th century BCE Hyksos Expulsion as presented by the 3rd
> century BCE Egyptian historian Manetho in his History of Egypt, written in
> Greek for his Ptolemaic overlords.
> What is NOT so well known is that Josephus in citing Manetho's work, notes
> with great displeasure, that Manetho does NOT associate the Exodus with the
> Hyksos Expulsion ! Instead, Manetho claims the Exodus was in the days of the
> Ramessides !
> I have been carefully "re-reading" Josephus' quotations from Manetho
> regarding the Ramesside Exodus which so incenesed the Jewish scholar for
> "clues."
> It is _my_ conclusion, after having studied Josephus' account of Manetho and
> having studied archaeology findings and having read innumerable Exodus
> dating proposals, that _TWO EXODUS EVENTS_ are being recalled in the Bible.
> The "first" is the mid 16th century BCE Hyksos Expulsion and the "second" is
> the Ramesside expulsion "narrated" by Manetho !
> My query to the audience- have other scholars made this proposal ? If so,
> could someone direct me to a published presentation, either on the Internet
> or Book or Periodical ?
> Regards, Walter
> Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld y de la Torre, M.A. Ed.
> mattfeld12 at charter.net
> www.bibleorigins.net
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David Kimbrough
San Gabriel

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