[b-hebrew] Isaiah 53: in his death?

Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Wed May 19 20:03:16 EDT 2004

Dear Liz,

>  Dear Jack, Harold, Peter, Vadim, etc.
>These events are to be treated as descriptive of events
>that took place in the Persian period, the time of Second
>Isaiah. Any other interpretation violates all common sense
>imo. Prophets deal with the events and concerns of their
>own times. They do not deal with events happening 700 or
>500 years in the future.

HH: That's your view of things. God talks about 
things way in advance, so the prophets can, too. 
This is especially the case when it concerns His 
Messiah. God talked to Abraham about things more 
than four hundred years in advance:

Gen. 15:13 Then the LORD said to him,  "Know for 
certain that your descendants will be strangers 
in a country not their own, and they will be 
enslaved and mistreated four hundred years.

HH: A prophet spoke of Josiah three hundred years 
in advance. This prophecy was made by a man of 
God in the time of Jeroboam I in the northern 

1Kings 13:2 He cried out against the altar by the 
word of the LORD:  "O altar, altar! This is what 
the LORD says:  'A son named Josiah will be born 
to the house of David. On you he will sacrifice 
the priests of the high places who now make 
offerings here, and human bones will be burned on 

HH: Joshua pronounced a curse that was fulfilled 
about five hundred years later in the time of 

Josh. 6:26 ¶ At that time Joshua pronounced this 
solemn oath:  "Cursed before the LORD is the man 
who undertakes to rebuild this city, Jericho: 
"At the cost of his firstborn son will he lay its 
foundations; at the cost of his youngest will he 
set up its gates."
1Kings 16:34 ¶ In Ahab's time, Hiel of Bethel 
rebuilt Jericho. He laid its foundations at the 
cost of his firstborn son Abiram, and he set up 
its gates at the cost of his youngest son Segub, 
in accordance with the word of the LORD spoken by 
Joshua son of Nun.

HH: Jeremiah, Zechariah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Daniel 
and others make prophecies about the Messiah, 
many of which have not yet been fulfilled.

HH: Amos and Hosea speak of a restoration of the 
Davidic kingship, which has not happened yet:

Hos. 3:5 Afterward the Israelites will return and 
seek the LORD their God and David their king. 
They will come trembling to the LORD and to his 
blessings in the last days.
Amos 9:11  "In that day I will restore David's 
fallen tent. I will repair its broken places, 
restore its ruins, and build it as it used to be,

HH: Daniel prophesied things hundreds of years in 
advance in the time of Alexander the Great, 
Antiochus Epiphanes, and beyond. Many prophets 
prophesy concerning the end of the age.

>This poem is a continuation of Isaiah 50, and there the speaker
>is definitely jailed by Persians. Pulling out the hairs of the head
>and beard, as well as flogging, are Persian sanctions, not Jewish.
>Read Helzer, M. "The Flogging and Plucking of Beards in the
>Achaemenid Empire and the Chronology of Nehemiah," AMI 28
>(1995-96):305-7. This article definitely shows the Persian background
>to Isaiah 50. The speaker is jailed for disobedience to Persian authority
>for some reason. The kindlers of fire (50:11) may be Jews who rush after
>the customs of the Zoroastrians.

HH: Are you claiming that the Persians were the 
only people to abuse others by pulling out their 
hair? Something like that does not have to be in 
a lawcode to be done.

>I see Isaiah 53 as refering in the third person to the first person
>speaker of Isaiah 50.

HH: Finally you say something that I can agree with.

				Harold Holmyard

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