[b-hebrew] Proverbs 17:8

Yigal Levin leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il
Mon May 17 17:08:19 EDT 2004


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Kimbrough (CLWA)" <dkimbrough at clwa.org>
To: "'Yigal Levin'" <leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il>; "b-hebrew"
<b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Proverbs 17:8


> Hmmm.   Well I have to say that using your translation, I do not see any
> negative connotations.  It seems like a positive association to me,
> comparing $oxad to a precious stone, a jewel perhaps.  It is hard for me
to
> see how that is negative.
>
> In the OT, this word $oxad is used 23 times.  Most of them are clearly
> references to bribery (Exd 23:8, Deu 16:19, Deu 27:25, 1Sam 8:3, Job
15:34,
> Psa 15:5, Psa 26:10,  Pro 17:23, Isa 1:23, 5:23, 33:15, 2Ch 19:7, Eze
22:12,
> Mic 3:11, etc).
>
> Other do not seem to have any negative association.  1Ki 15:19 and 2Ki
16:8
> the reference is clearly to gifts from king to king, a normal, legal, and
> positive activity, tokens of good faith and alliance.

No. These are both bribes given by the wak king of Judah to a more powerful
country, aimed at getting its king to take action.

Yigal


>
> Isa 45:13 seems to be a reference to reward, a gift for doing something
> ethically good and legal, in this case freeing captives.  I read it as the
> righteous free captives for goodness alone, without expectation of reward.
> However it could be read that the righteous free captives without
expecting
> ransoms, which the modern reader would have a negative association with.
It
> depends if the righteous is the captor, or liberates the captives from a
3rd
> party captor.
>
> I think of it this way, if one were to search the laws of say California,
> one would find references to rules pertaining to gifts and government
> officials, all with negative connotations, namely with the stated or
> unstated concern of bribery. This does not mean that in English all gifts
> are thought of as negative or bribes.  It is just In the context of
> regulating illegal activity, perversion of justice in particular (a
subject
> of great concern in the OT) the word gift is closely associated with
> bribery.
>
> David Eugene Kimbrough
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yigal Levin [mailto:leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il]
> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 12:06 PM
> To: b-hebrew
> Subject: Fw: [b-hebrew] Proverbs 17:8
>
>
>
>  In all of the places in which $oxad is used, it is always meant
> negatively -
> as a bribe. This includes verse 23 in this very chapter. As for verse 8,
my
> translation would be: "A bribe is [as preacous] to its owner [as a]
precous
> stone".
>
>  Yigal
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "wattswestmaas" <wattswestmaas at eircom.net>
> > To: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:17 PM
> > Subject: [b-hebrew] Proverbs 17:8
> >
> >
> > > Dear One and All,
> > >
> > > Subject: Proverbs 17:8.
> > >
> > > The question here centres on the word that is translated as 'gift' and
> > > 'bribe'; and also on the 'object' of the proverb either as 'the
person'
> > who
> > > is the recipient of the 'gift/bribe' or the 'it' ie the gift/bribe
> itself.
> > >
> > > Personally speaking I favour 'gift' even though this word is often
> > > translated as bribe elswhere, this is very much linked to the somewhat
> > > esthetical sense of the word 'stone of grace' and its position in the
> > > sentence?. Anyway please elucidate me with your grammatical
intuitions.
> I
> > > learn good things from these heated debates.
> > >
> > > Much appreciated - Chris from Ireland
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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