earlier dictionaries? was [b-hebrew] Offend/dealt corruptly - chet bet lamed (nehemiah 1:7)

Harold R. Holmyard III hholmyard at ont.com
Fri Jul 2 00:03:34 EDT 2004

Dear Karl,

Karl: In closing, if you are unconvinced, you are unconvinced. I am
unconvinced of the majority scholarly reading. It does not fit what I
know of languages in general nor of Biblical Hebrew in particular. I am
not here to enforce my understanding on others, but I will defend it
unless you can give me good reasons not to. So far no one has.

HH: That's why I spent so much time on Song of 
Solomon 2:15. What translation are you going with 
there now after all the efforts I made to justify 
the traditional translation? This time I use 
NASB, since you thought NIV was paraphrastic. 
NASB and NIV basically agree in their handling of 
XBL in all these verses.

HH: NASB has for Song 2:15:

"(32) Catch the foxes for us,
           The little foxes that are ruining the vineyards,
           While our (33) vineyards are in blossom."

Karl: Isaiah 13:5 one of the meanings I 
recognized for XBL חנל is to 
pack up to carry away, in order to despoil the 

HH: Would you just substitute "pack up" for "destroy"?  NASB has:

  They are coming from a far country,
           From the (10) farthest horizons,
           The LORD and His instruments of (11) indignation,
           To (12) destroy the whole land.

HH: Can you show other verses where XBL means pack up?

Karl: Maybe I’m reading some of my own 
experiences into the text, but as a person who is 
not financially well off, I see how the rich are 
restricting my options as in Isaiah 32:7 
(restrict is one of the derivitive meanings that 
I recognize from to knot up).

HH: NASB has:

As for a rogue, his weapons are evil;
           He (11) devises wicked schemes
           To (12) destroy the afflicted with slander,
           (13) Even though the needy one speaks what is right.

HH:  If we substitute your word, we get:

As for a rogue, his weapons are evil;
           He (11) devises wicked schemes
           To (12) restrict the afflicted with slander,
           (13) Even though the needy one speaks what is right.

HH: Do you think that makes sense? It gives a poor translation.

Karl: Isaiah 54:16 in reference to verse 17, 
again I see ruination to those who make 

HH: NASB has:

"Behold, I Myself have created the smith who blows the fire of coals
           And brings out a weapon for its work;
           And I have created the destroyer to ruin.
        "(39) No weapon that is formed against you will prosper;
           And (40) every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn.
           This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD,
           And their (41) vindication is from Me," declares the LORD.

HH: "Those who make restrictions" does not work 
as a translation because XBL is an infinitive 
here, not a plural participle.

Karl: In Micah 2:12 those who act corruptly end up tying themselves into knots.

HH: The verse with XBL is Micah 2:10, where NASB has:

     "Arise and go,
           For this is no place (28) of rest
           Because of the (29) uncleanness that brings on destruction,
           A painful destruction.

HH: Forms of XBL occur twice. The verb is 
feminine singular, going back to resting place. 
Then there is a nominal form. There is no form 
that indicates people, so your idea does not work.

Karl: Job 17:1 My spirit is restricted, my days 
are set up as graves for me. ( Z(K 
זעך is a hapax legomai, are we 
sure we have the right meaning for it? I’m not 
sure of its definition. )

HH: NASB has:

  "My spirit is broken, my days are extinguished,
           The (1) grave is ready for me.

HH: It seems to be something a bit more serious 
than his spirit being restricted. The idea is 
that he feels close to death. 

Karl: Job 34:31 God is not the one who says I 
lift up but I am not restricted, which I read to 
say that God finishes what he starts.

HH: NASB has:

  "For has anyone said to God,
           'I have borne chastisement;
           I will not offend anymore;

HH: Your translation is incorrect. N&) has its 
meaning of bear guilt or punishment, not "lift 
up." God is not the One who is talking but the 
One who is spoken to here.

Karl: Ecclesiastes 5:5 (6) don’t make promises 
before God that you may not be able to keep, or 
those that will restrict your options, the work 
you can do.

HH: NASB has:

  It is (8) better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay.
6   Do not let your speech cause you to sin and 
do not say in the presence of the messenger of 
God that it was a (9) mistake. Why should God be 
angry on account of your voice and destroy the 
work of your hands?

HH: "Restrict" seems like a weak substitute to 
"destroy" here, and "the work of your hands" is 
an idiom that usually refers to what one has 
created by his work.

Karl: Nehemiah 1:7 We are surely connected to 
you, but we have not followed your commands.

HH: NASB has:

(17) We have acted very corruptly against You and 
have not kept the commandments, nor the statutes, 
nor the ordinances (18) which You commanded Your 
servant Moses.

HH: You don't agree with other translations, 
which see that a stronger idea than "connected" 
is needed here. I can see why you might want your 
translation, since it seems theoretically 
possible, but verse 7 continues in simple 
confession of sin as in verse 6.

					Harold Holmyard

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