[b-hebrew] Isaiah 9:6 Wonderful Counselor

George F Somsel gfsomsel at juno.com
Thu Dec 30 18:47:59 EST 2004

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:19:35 -0500 Jim West <jwest at highland.net> writes:
> At 05:05 PM 12/30/2004, you wrote:
> >Jim
> > > The simple, straightforward exposition (translation) of the 
> phrase in 
> > hebrew is "marvelous advisor" or
> > > the more common "wonderful counselor".
> >
> >Schmuel
> >    From what you say, I gather either thought "wonderful, 
> counselor" 
> > (noun, noun), or "wonderful counselor" (adjective,noun) could 
> possibly be 
> > represented with the same Hebrew expression, even though wonderful 
> is 
> > grammatically a noun.
> Its the construction itself that gives the hint at proper 
> translation.  Hebrew is capable of piling up nouns.  Here we have a 
> participle and a noun.  That combination forms a hendiadys.  A 
> hendiadys 
> indicates that two words modify one another- it is literally a 
> "saying one 
> thing with two words".

This is not the first time that you have stated this.  The first time I
let it pass, but you persist in repeating what is factually incorrect. 
There is no hendiadys involved here.  To qualify as hendiadys there must
be a copula between the two terms.  Absent a copula this is not

> >http://www.fbfi.org/WebMan/Article.asp?ID=3809&Count=false
> >God in a Manger - Adam Blumer
> >Many writers and scholars alike mistakenly treat the word wonderful 
> as an 
> >adjective as in "Wonderful Counsellor" (with the comma deleted). 
> Actually, 
> >in the original Hebrew, the word wonderful of Isaiah 9:6 stands 
> alone as a 
> >noun...
> Ok my problem here is a simple one.  If the guy doesn't know that 
> the verse 
> is actually 9:5, ......

Yes, I know.  This is a TERRIBLE error!  He references the English
versification rather than the Hebrew!  He should be drawn and quartered. 
Seriously now, this may be an incorrect practice, but if you know that
the systems differ then I would say it is NBD (no big deal).  Do try to
not be utterly pedantic.


More information about the b-hebrew mailing list