[b-hebrew] Re: g(r Psa. 106:9

MarianneLuban at aol.com MarianneLuban at aol.com
Mon Dec 20 16:14:06 EST 2004


In a message dated 12/20/2004 4:18:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
peterkirk at qaya.org writes:


> On 19/12/2004 01:06, MarianneLuban at aol.com wrote:
> 
> >...  In the 
> >Samaritan tradition, Abraham is dated to as early as 2112 BCE and the 
> exodus to 1682 
> >BCE.  These dates were affirmed by a Samaritan scholar with whom I 
> conferred 
> >in person at the beginning of this month.  If anything, this tradition 
> harks 
> >back to the routing of the Hyksos [shepherd kings] by King Ahmose I, the 
> founder 
> >of the 18th Dynasty. ...
> >
> 
> This date corresponds better with the Exodus being towards the end of 
> the 13th dynasty, as the Middle Kingdom descended into the chaos of the 
> Second Intermediate Period. It would thus fit well with the 
> archaeological context described by David Rohl, although not with Rohl's 
> absolute dates.

And other modern scholars have their own ideas, but I was referring to 
ancient traditions--another matter.  It is seen that most writers of antiquity 
believed that the Biblical 430 years culminated with the reign of Ahmose I--and he 
is specifically named by them.   Whether or not this belief was solely 
obtained from an interpretation of the writings of Manetho or the lost text of 
Hecataeus of Abdera, I cannot say, but there it is.  Meanwhile there were those 
dissenting authors, such as Eusebius and Artapanus, who claimed an exodus at 490 
years after Abraham.  Since you mentioned Rohl, I seem to recall that he made 
something of the writings of Artapanus in his discussion of the dating of the 
exodus, but neglected to mention that Artapanus was one of those who 
contradicted the ones who believed in Ahmose I as being the Pharaoh mentioned in the 
BOE--and thought it had happened 60 years later.  Not earlier, as in the time of 
the 13th Dynasty.  The name of the king given by Artapanus was that same as 
that of Eusebius--"Chencheres".  Syncellus the Monk supplies his version of 
Manetho's 18th Dynasty and deems it "according to Eusebius"--and it includes 
"Chencheres".  Therefore, all of the ancient chronographers--to a man--were firm in 
the belief that the exodus occurred within the time of the 18th Dynasty.  
With the possible exception of Manetho, the Egyptian, who appears to me to have 
been misinterpreted by the others, who were Jews and Christians, to a 
considerable degree.  A careful analysis of Manetho [or what remains of his work] 
indicates that he, although mentioning the routing of the Hyksos, does not equate 
them with the Jews at all.  In fact, Manetho appears to place Moses as being 
contemporaneous with the 20th Dynasty, this ruling well after the time the 
toponym "Raamses" had been built.  In fact, by the end of the 20th Dynasty, the 
harbor of "Raamses" had silted up and the city had already been or would shortly 
be abandoned--just as had the city adjacent to it, Avaris, been long before.  
So, if Manetho is correct and the others are wrong and Moses wrote the Torah, 
the mention of "Raamses" would not be an anachronism in the BOE.  Nor would 
the mention of "Zoan" or Tanis in Numbers because the first builder known at 
Tanis is Psusennes I, of the 21st Dynasty, who reigned in the Delta only a few 
years after the demise of the 20th Dynasty--and used much of the stone from 
"Raamses" in his building.  Thereafter, Tanis became the capital of the northern 
kings of Egypt.  As I do think Rohl was correct that the Third Intermediate 
Period should be shortened by at least a century and that some of the 20th 
Dynasty kings were ruling at the same time and not just successively, Manetho's 
scenario would not place Solomon's temple so far ahead in time as to be 
impossible.  The problem is the period of the Judges.  It is too long to fit with any 
such late date for Moses.  However, realistically speaking, there could be no 
king over Israel until the time of Ramesses X of the 20th Dynasty when the 
Egyptian empire totally crumbled and its holdings in Canaan were no more.  
According to modern reckoning, that reign is about 1108-1098 BCE.  The period of the 
Judges, by the math of Clement of Alexandria, requires 463 years and seven 
months--leading us back to the time of the 18th Dynasty--by any chronology.  
Interpreting the Bible against Egyptian history as reconstructed by modern 
Egyptology results in a huge migraine.



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