[b-hebrew] Isaiah 53:8

Yigal Levin leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il
Sat Dec 11 13:37:41 EST 2004


I agree that Biblical Hebrew does not have a word that is exactly equivalent
to the Modern English "sin". I don't think that the biblical writers had a
concept that was exactly equivalent to the Christian concept of "sin". Nor
did they have a concept that was exactly equivalent to the modern one of
"crime". So obviously, we must translate as best as we can. Your
explanations for x+) is well-known. (wn is less clear. But to assume that
all cases of p$( mean rebel does not work. There is a perfectly common word
for "rebel" - MRD. The use of "pa$a( b..." for "rebel against" is in itself
a figure of speach - the overlord assumes that he rules by "right", and so
the rebel is committing a "wrong" by rebelling. Maybe it would be better to
translate p$( as "wrong" rather than "crime".

----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph at email.com>
To: "Hebrew" <b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 53:8

> Yigal:
> In reading Tanakh, I found that the Biblical Hebrew language lacked a
generalized term for "sin", rather several specific terms were used: the
three most common are (WH or (WWN with the concept of twisting or
perverting, P$( with the concept of rebelling and the archery term X+)
meaning to miss the target (incidently, when the Jewish writers of the New
Testament looked at Koiné Greek and saw it too lacked a generalized term for
"sin", they used the archery term referring to missing the target, wonder
where they got that idea from?).
> Come to think of it, I don't think there is a generalized term for "crime"
in Tanakh, while many specific crimes are mentioned, e.g. stealing,
kidnapping, murder, etc.
> Even in Amos 1 - 2, Amos wrote from a viewpoint that there is only one God
who made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that there is in them,
and that all the gods of the nations were nothing, connected with the fact
that the nations around Israel had heard these claims, so for them to
continue following their gods was considered the same as rebellion.
> Karl W. Randolph.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yigal Levin" <leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph at email.com>
> > > Look at 2 Kings 1:1, 3:5,7, 8:20, 22 and so forth: these are examples
> > vassal nations rebelling against their overlord. P$( in these verses
> > refers to rebellion, and it is often used of man's rebellion against
> > (It might mean "crime" in modern Hebrew, but that's irrelevant to this
> > verse.)
> > >
> >
> > Karl, while it is true that the verb Pa$a(  b... means "rebel against",
> > can be used to rebel against either a human overlord or God. The noun
> > however, means "crime". It is often paralelled by X+) "sin", because the
> > Bible is a book about the raelationship between God and man, and to
commit a
> > crime against God is to sin, but it still means "crime". Gen. 50:17, or
> > that matter Amos 1 and 2, certainly have nothing to do with rebellion,
> > unless you are to consider any crime a rebellion.
> >
> > Yigal
> --
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