[b-hebrew] Unicode Holam proposals

Pere Casanellas pere.casanellas at btlink.net
Tue Aug 3 05:55:17 EDT 2004

Dear Peter Kirk,

I was trying to answer to your invitation to make comments on your proposal 
to encode Holam Male and Vav Haluma, but I could not fint the document 
proposed by Michael Everson. Could you please verify the URL you indicated 
for this alternative proposal? (With the URL you indicated I get a document 
whose title is "Proposal to add Ideographical Description Characters (IDC) 
to the UCS".)


Pere Casanellas
E-mail: pere.casanellas at btlink.net
        pere at casanellas.com
Treasurer of the Societat Catalana d'Estudis Hebraics
Member of the Associació Bíblica de Catalunya

At 00:14 01/08/2004 +0100, Peter Kirk wrote:
>Please excuse the cross posting of an announcement which is relevant to 
>members of several groups (and a few individuals receiving blind copies).
>I have submitted to the Unicode Technical Committee, in the name of a 
>small group of Hebrew experts, a new proposal for solving the long 
>standing problem of distinguishing between Holam Male (full Holem) and Vav 
>Haluma (consonantal Waw with defective Holem) in Unicode Hebrew texts. You 
>may read this proposal (which is much shorter than the old proposal 
>submitted in June) at http://www.qaya.org/academic/hebrew/Holam3.pdf, or 
>...Holam3.html. This proposal is based on using the ZERO WIDTH NON-JOINER 
>character to distinguish between Holam Male and Vav Haluma. This proposal 
>was based on the consensus preference of a number of experts in ancient 
>and modern Hebrew who contributed to the discussion.
>An alternative proposal has been submitted by Michael Everson, a 
>generalist script expert and Indo-Europeanist with little knowledge of 
>Hebrew, and Mark Shoulson, an American Jew. This alternative proposal 
>(which should soon be available at 
>http://www.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n2840.pdf but is not what you 
>currently get when you go to that URL) is for a new character for use as 
>Holam Haser (defective Holem) only when used with Vav. This proposal is, 
>in my opinion, based on clear misunderstandings of how the Hebrew script works.
>The Hebrew experts involved in the discussions have clearly rejected the 
>principle of encoding a new character for a variant Holam. Nevertheless, 
>some influential people in the Unicode Consortium seem determined to 
>impose on Hebrew script users a new character which they do not want. The 
>alternative may not be rendered precisely correctly with some older 
>rendering engines (but in practice probably can be by any engine which can 
>handle right-to-left script), but it is based clearly on how the Hebrew 
>script works.
>I invite all interested parties, especially regular users of Hebrew 
>script, to make comments on the proposal I have submitted, and on the 
>alternative proposal if they are able to find it. Comments should be made 
>directly to the Unicode Consortium via 
>http://www.unicode.org/reporting.html, or by e-mail to human3 at unicode.org. 
>They should be made before the Unicode Technical Committee meeting which 
>starts on 10th August. I will be happy to receive copies of any comments.
>Peter Kirk
>peter at qaya.org (personal)
>peterkirk at qaya.org (work)
>b-hebrew mailing list
>b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org

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