[Fwd: Re: [b-Hebrew] 22 nd Psalm]

Peter Kirk peterkirk at qaya.org
Sun Nov 23 18:39:41 EST 2003


Here is my off-list response to Jason (adjusted only by omission of what 
Jason wrote), which I can now post as Jason has posted what he wrote. 
The evidence Michael quoted has strengthened my case, although I 
wouldn't want to bring the part about Yeshua into the discussion here. 
Nor would I accept Jason's argument "I do not like the idea that this 
whole psalm is applied to Jesus messianically"; rather, in principle at 
least, I would hope that we can understand the meaning of the text 
without appealing either positively or negatively to Christian 
understandings. Incidentally, this verse is not quoted in the New 
Testament, and so any Christian understandings are later; I don't know 
how much later.

Peter

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [b-Hebrew] 22 nd Psalm
Date: 	Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:13:03 -0800
From: 	Peter Kirk <peterkirk at qaya.org>
To: 	Jason Hare <jason at hareplay.com>
References: 	<E6BA5CF79183D5118E5C00065B1960B4287799 at SERVER01> 
<3FBEA1D2.3040601 at qaya.org> <002301c3b139$775335a0$0300a8c0 at jason>



On 22/11/2003 12:44, Jason Hare wrote:

...
>
>What keeps us from translating it literally as the Hebrew has it? ...


Thank you, Jason. You have given a sensible interpretation of the Hebrew 
text as it stands. Why don't you post that part to the list? I agree 
that I have preconceptions too, and because of this I didn't see the 
difficulties of understanding the "they have pierced" interpretation. On 
the other hand, if "pierced" is inappropriate for a Messianic figure, 
you have to explain also Isaiah 53:5 and Zechariah 12:10.

I suppose I would answer "what about the LXX"? Was this a mistranslation 
which happened to make this passage fit crucifixion better? Or was the 
LXX text adjusted to fit the facts of the crucifixion? Neither seems 
very likely - given that those who fixed the LXX could have done a much 
better job.

So I'm not sure what to conclude. Scholars have been divided for 
centuries and probably always will be.

-- 
Peter Kirk
peter at qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk at qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/







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