[b-hebrew] Rahab's Guests

Peter Kirk peter.r.kirk at ntlworld.com
Tue Jul 15 18:18:40 EDT 2003

On 15/07/2003 12:21, Yigal Levin wrote:

>At 11:58 AM 7/15/2003 -0700, Peter Kirk wrote:
>>Well, let me put it this way. According to Muslim tradition and the 
>>Qur'an, all prophets were sinless, and that includes most of the major 
>>figures in the Bible. According to the New Testament, only Jesus Christ 
>>was sinless and indeed all others have sinned. Some ancient Christian 
>>traditions also hold that the Virgin Mary was sinless.
>While I have no stake in this one way or another, a billion Catholics (give
>or take a few million) are "some ancient Christian traditions"?...
Fair enough. I don't want to be dismissive of anyone, although there are 
probably another billion or so nominal Christians who don't hold this. 
But the Catholic dogmas on this are actually modern. I wanted to point 
to the ancient traditions, which are as  mixed as the modern ones.

>... In any
>case, it's important to distinguish between personal "sins" committed by
>some (and probably all) humans and that "Original Sin" that Paul et al.
>would have us all responsible for. ...
Paul clearly teaches that all have sinned individually, it's not just a 
matter of collective "original sin". See Romans 3:9-20  where he quotes 
a string of psalms to prove his point, and the summary in v.23. In fact 
I don't think Paul really taught "original sin" at all, it's just that 
Augustine of Hippo misunderstood an ambiguous Latin translation. But 
that takes us a long way off topic.

>... No Jewish tradition, Chronicles
>included, ever claimed that anyone is "sinless" - look at Moses and his
>rock-hitting. As far as Muslim traditions, what the "perverted"
>Jewish/Christian Bible says about Musa, Daud, Suleiman or Isa (Jesus) is
>irrelevant anyway.

Peter Kirk
peter.r.kirk at ntlworld.com

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