bereshit (translations) Paul
mc2499 at mclink.it
Fri Mar 22 10:14:38 EST 2002
Paul in an attempt to redefine time phrases and clauses
as something else, responds to the fact that br'$yt is
used in Jeremiah as a time when phrase, stating when
the word of God came to Jeremiah in the following
>> Jer 26:1,
>> Jer 27:1,
>> Jer 28:1 (with the wyhy introducing it as with many bywm),
>> Jer 49:34
>No, Ian, they are of a completely different character. The other instances
>of "time words" in your list, almost always YWM or its plural form,
I haven't ever cited a plural form of bywm, have I, Paul?
You're stretching things in an attempt to make your point.
>are words describing *duration* of time.
This simply doesn't reflect the usage of these words.
There is no sign of an intention to talk of duration with
phrases such as bywm and b`t, but to locate an event in
Look at Jos 9:12 for example and say if you think that
the writer is thinking about duration, or is the bywm
clause a time locative? When would Shimei died in 1 Kgs
2:42? In Ps. 102:2 does bywm 'qr' indicate duration or
when the speaker would like a speedy response?
>R)$YT in the cases you give refers to
>a *particular point or event*, the beginning of a series.
Yes, a particular point *in time*, ie a time locative
phrase, just as is the case with bywm and b`t, as a perusal
of the uses of these terms indicate. ("It happened that ON
THE DAY WHEN kings go out [to do battle], something
>I would say that
>there needs be a bit more groundwork laid that a "point" word is handled the
>same as a "duration" word before we can lump them together as "time" words
>and then go on to make conclusions, e.g., because YWM is handled in such a
>way, R)$YT can be interpreted the same way.
I have been arguing that we are not looking at ywm and
r'$yt, but specifically bywm and br'$yt.
As your analysis seems not to reflect the corpus, I see no
reason to contemplate your theory. It appears to me to be
an unsupported side attempt to dismiss the parallels
between bywm, b`t and br'$yt, now by saying that they are
not comparable, when in fact they show similarities in form
both in context, such as
yhy bywm ...
yhy br'$yt ...
and in qualification
br'$yt works in constructs just as bym and b`t
br'$yt apparently takes clauses just as bywm and b`t
(And hopefully my examples from Isa 30:26b and Oba 11 show
that there is no doubt that bywm can have multiple cluses.)
I see no reason why you would want to create the difference
you are trying to here. In each case br'$yt, bywm and b`t
answer the question "when?". This is the acid test, and I'd
say in each case they do.
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