Elohim plurality

Lisbeth S. Fried lizfried at umich.edu
Tue Jan 29 15:43:01 EST 2002





>
> Synonymous parallelism suggests ("shoots down" was perhaps too
> strong, how about "calls into question") that "I" and "us" have the
> same referent.
I don't understand what you're basing this on?
How would it have been written if they had different referents?
YHWH is in charge, and is doing the sending, but like a true
leader, he's asking the rest of the divine beings/gods whom he
should send. For all I know he could be talking to the Seraphim.
If he were talking to himself, wouldn't you expect,
"Elohim said in his heart (!), whom should I send."
He wouldn't refer to others.
There are other texts (e.g., Psalms 29, 82) which indicate
the presence of other gods.
How do you translate Elohim in Psalm 82:1?
It should probably be "Elohim stood forth in the council of El.
In the midst of the gods, he judged."
So Elohim is a proper name here.
Weird stuff.
But it ought not be doubted that the Biblical writers
conceived of more than one god and that the word Elohim
can indicate more than one god.
Liz

>
> > How does Isaiah 6:8 shoot down the existence of other divine beings
> > that YHWH is talking to?
> > Liz
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dave Washburn [mailto:dwashbur at nyx.net]
> > > Sent: Tue, January 29, 2002 2:49 PM
> > > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > > Subject: RE: Elohim plurality
> > >
> > >
> > > The only real problem passage I found was his treatment of Isa 6:8,
> > > where he failed to notice the apparent synonymous parallelism
> > > between "whom shall I send?" and "who will go for us?"  It seems to
> > > me that the parallelism shoots down the idea that God is talking to
> > > angelic beings or someone else in these clauses.
> > >
> > > > I have just read this from
> http://www.clc.edu/askdr/Archive/elohim.htm.
> > > > Yes, to me this is basically sound, though I would want to be more
> > > > careful re Psalm 45:6.
> > > >
> > > > Peter Kirk
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Schmuel [mailto:schmuel at bigfoot.com]
> > > > > Sent: 29 January 2002 19:04
> > > > > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > > > > Subject: Elohim plurality
> > > > >
> > > > > Shalom b-Hebrew
> > > > >
> > > > > Schmuel quoting Daniel Segraves..
> > > > > > >   Elohim is a masculine plural noun. Eloah, the
> singular form of
> > > > the
> > > > > >word, > appears 54 times and is also used in reference
> to both the
> > > > true
> > > > > God
> > > > > >and to > false gods. Eloah is from the Hebrew El, which
> appears 226
> > > > > times.  El
> > > > > > > signifies strength and power. >  <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter Kirk,
> > > > > >Well, 'EL may be a contracted form of 'ELOAH  (though hardly vice
> > > > versa)
> > > > > >or otherwise derived from the root 'LH; or it may be
> derived from the
> > > > > >root 'YL meaning "strength, power", as in 'AYIL "ram",
> "leader". But
> > > > I
> > > > > >don't see how both of these can be true at the same
> time. BDB has a
> > > > > >summary of some options (pp.41-42), but a lot of this is pure
> > > > > speculation.
> > > > >
> > > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > --
> > > > > -------------------------
> > > > > Hi Peter,
> > > > >
> > > > > Ptting aside the relationship between the forms..
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you find Daniel's Segrave's discussion of Elohim and plurality
> > > > > basically
> > > > > sound..... ?
> > > > >
> > > > > It is the only such fairly complete grammar discussion that I have
> > > > > found on the Net  :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Schmuel at bigfoot.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Messianic Apologetic Email forum....
> > > > > Messianic_Apologetic-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
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> > > >
> > >
> > > Dave Washburn
> > > http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> > > This time, like all times, is a very good one if we but know
> what to do
> > > with it.
> > >                   -Emerson
> > >
> > >
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> >
>
> Dave Washburn
> http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> This time, like all times, is a very good one if we but know what to do
> with it.
>                   -Emerson
>
>
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