God's name: was Curious abut "G-d"

Trevor & Julie Peterson 06peterson at cua.edu
Tue Jan 22 18:10:11 EST 2002


That's exactly what I was thinking. I think the -ya(hu) suffix is generally
thought to be a shortened form of the name, not the name itself.

Trevor Peterson
CUA/Semitics

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond de Hoop [mailto:rdehoop at keyaccess.nl]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 5:06 PM
> To: Biblical Hebrew
> Subject: Re: God's name: was Curious abut "G-d"
>
>
> Shalom,
>
> Two matres after one another would be impossible, in case you
> would consider
> /w/ also as a mater. In case of the vocalisation Yahweh, the /w/ is a
> consonant, while the final /h/ could be a mater, and in that case the name
> could be written Yahwe indeed.
>
> Greetings,
> Raymond
>
>
> > Van: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried at umich.edu>
> > Beantwoord: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried at umich.edu>
> > Datum: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:39:37 -0500
> > Aan: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Onderwerp: RE: God's name: was Curious abut "G-d"
> >
> > You're the Semiticist.
> > Is it a matres lexiones?
> > I don't know what it does in Yahweh either,
> > you could write it yahwe.
> > Liz
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Trevor Peterson [mailto:06PETERSON at cua.edu]
> >> Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 1:26 PM
> >> To: Biblical Hebrew
> >> Subject: RE: God's name: was Curious abut "G-d"
> >>
> >>
> >> Then what's the other he (H) doing?
> >>
> >> Trevor Peterson
> >> CUA/Semitics
> >>
> >>> ===== Original Message From "Lisbeth S. Fried"
> <lizfried at umich.edu> =====
> >>> IT's probably Yahu, as in Eliyahu,
> >>> Yermiyahu, Netanyahu. Or Yehu, as in
> >>> Yehu (=Jehu). At Elephantine it's spelled
> >>> YHW, which is easily pronounced Yahu.
> >>> Now it could be Yaho, as Yahonatan. But
> >>> I vote for Yahu.
> >>> Liz
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Shoshanna Walker [mailto:rosewalk at concentric.net]
> >>>> Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 11:42 AM
> >>>> To: Biblical Hebrew
> >>>> Subject: Re: Curious abut "G-d"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Please keep in mind that no one knows how to pronounce that name,
> >>>> and no one
> >>>> was allowed to pronounce that name except for one person, in one
> >>>> place, once
> >>>> a year.
> >>>>
> >>>> Shoshanna
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I agree with Ian 100%.
> >>>>> Thanks Ian.
> >>>>> It should be noted in addition that Blenkinsopp
> >>>>> in his new Isaiah commentary spells the tetragrammaton
> >>>>> YHVH only to be consistent with modern Hebrew usage.
> >>>>> Jews from Arab countries pronounce it as waw, presumably
> >>>>> supporting the notion of German influence for the vav.
> >>>>> Liz
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Ian Hutchesson [mailto:mc2499 at mclink.it]
> >>>>>> Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 10:47 AM
> >>>>>> To: Biblical Hebrew
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Curious abut "G-d"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Wouldn't the letters of the Tetragrammaton be YHVH, not
> >>>> YHWH? The third
> >>>>>>> letter is for 'vav' if I'm not mistaken, right?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Right - vav
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sorry, there's no reason to believe that this is the case.
> >> One cannot
> >>>> use
> >>>>>> the mores of modern Hebrew to say how things were pronounced
> >>>> in ancient
> >>>>>> times. vav as an ancient rendering of the sound makes little
> >>>> sense when
> >>>>>> one considers the ancient use of waw as a vowel /u/, especially
> >>>>>> in the DSS.
> >>>>>> This strongly indicates a bilabial liquid consonant related to
> >>>>>> the /u/, ie
> >>>>>> /w/, for when you make a /w/ the mouth is in the right
> >> state also to
> >>>> make
> >>>>>> the vowel sound /u/. As a /v/ is a (labio-dental)
> >> fricative, it uses a
> >>>>>> different mechanism to provide sound and puts the mouth in no state
> >>>>>> reminiscent of a /u/. Perhaps one could supply a *phonological*
> >>>>>> connection
> >>>>>> between waw and its vocalic use some other way, but I haven't
> >>>>>> seen it done
> >>>>>> and can't imagine one.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We do have a strong analogy to the w/u relationship, when yod is
> >>>>>> used as a
> >>>>>> vowel yielding /i/, for when you make a /y/ the mouth is in the
> >>>>>> right state
> >>>>>> also to make an /i/.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> waw as vav seems unjustified to me, so I'd say "wrong".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Didn't we get vav from waw after the German sound shift /w/ -> /v/?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ian
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ---
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