God's name: was Curious abut "G-d"

Raymond de Hoop rdehoop at keyaccess.nl
Tue Jan 22 17:06:11 EST 2002


Shalom,

Two matres after one another would be impossible, in case you would consider
/w/ also as a mater. In case of the vocalisation Yahweh, the /w/ is a
consonant, while the final /h/ could be a mater, and in that case the name
could be written Yahwe indeed.

Greetings,
Raymond


> Van: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried at umich.edu>
> Beantwoord: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried at umich.edu>
> Datum: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:39:37 -0500
> Aan: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Onderwerp: RE: God's name: was Curious abut "G-d"
> 
> You're the Semiticist.
> Is it a matres lexiones?
> I don't know what it does in Yahweh either,
> you could write it yahwe.
> Liz
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Trevor Peterson [mailto:06PETERSON at cua.edu]
>> Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 1:26 PM
>> To: Biblical Hebrew
>> Subject: RE: God's name: was Curious abut "G-d"
>> 
>> 
>> Then what's the other he (H) doing?
>> 
>> Trevor Peterson
>> CUA/Semitics
>> 
>>> ===== Original Message From "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried at umich.edu> =====
>>> IT's probably Yahu, as in Eliyahu,
>>> Yermiyahu, Netanyahu. Or Yehu, as in
>>> Yehu (=Jehu). At Elephantine it's spelled
>>> YHW, which is easily pronounced Yahu.
>>> Now it could be Yaho, as Yahonatan. But
>>> I vote for Yahu.
>>> Liz
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Shoshanna Walker [mailto:rosewalk at concentric.net]
>>>> Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 11:42 AM
>>>> To: Biblical Hebrew
>>>> Subject: Re: Curious abut "G-d"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Please keep in mind that no one knows how to pronounce that name,
>>>> and no one
>>>> was allowed to pronounce that name except for one person, in one
>>>> place, once
>>>> a year.
>>>> 
>>>> Shoshanna
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> I agree with Ian 100%.
>>>>> Thanks Ian.
>>>>> It should be noted in addition that Blenkinsopp
>>>>> in his new Isaiah commentary spells the tetragrammaton
>>>>> YHVH only to be consistent with modern Hebrew usage.
>>>>> Jews from Arab countries pronounce it as waw, presumably
>>>>> supporting the notion of German influence for the vav.
>>>>> Liz
>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Ian Hutchesson [mailto:mc2499 at mclink.it]
>>>>>> Sent: Tue, January 22, 2002 10:47 AM
>>>>>> To: Biblical Hebrew
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Curious abut "G-d"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Wouldn't the letters of the Tetragrammaton be YHVH, not
>>>> YHWH? The third
>>>>>>> letter is for 'vav' if I'm not mistaken, right?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Right - vav
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sorry, there's no reason to believe that this is the case.
>> One cannot
>>>> use
>>>>>> the mores of modern Hebrew to say how things were pronounced
>>>> in ancient
>>>>>> times. vav as an ancient rendering of the sound makes little
>>>> sense when
>>>>>> one considers the ancient use of waw as a vowel /u/, especially
>>>>>> in the DSS.
>>>>>> This strongly indicates a bilabial liquid consonant related to
>>>>>> the /u/, ie
>>>>>> /w/, for when you make a /w/ the mouth is in the right
>> state also to
>>>> make
>>>>>> the vowel sound /u/. As a /v/ is a (labio-dental)
>> fricative, it uses a
>>>>>> different mechanism to provide sound and puts the mouth in no state
>>>>>> reminiscent of a /u/. Perhaps one could supply a *phonological*
>>>>>> connection
>>>>>> between waw and its vocalic use some other way, but I haven't
>>>>>> seen it done
>>>>>> and can't imagine one.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We do have a strong analogy to the w/u relationship, when yod is
>>>>>> used as a
>>>>>> vowel yielding /i/, for when you make a /y/ the mouth is in the
>>>>>> right state
>>>>>> also to make an /i/.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> waw as vav seems unjustified to me, so I'd say "wrong".
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Didn't we get vav from waw after the German sound shift /w/ -> /v/?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ian
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
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